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Jim

Chris,

Thank you for all the faithful work you do to sound the alarm and help open the eyes and the ears of those who have fallen under the spell of men like Warren, Olsteen, Hybels etc.

Your post certainly was a "hole-in-one".

Jim

LorietheNarnian

Mr. Abanes --you will not do what people keep asking. Show us the money. Yes, you are flaming in a sense. . .maybe in spirit rather than strict legal terms. Which is interesting since I am about to address missing the spirit while keeping the very letter.

Warrens uses of common colloquialisms, metaphors etc. are so simple and commonly used it needs no college degree, there is no my way, your way of understanding these simple terms-- any one who has played kickball knows full well what a do-over is. This is one geeky kid who would have loved it when I was twenty points behind, struck out a fourth time --If someone would yell "DO OVER--- YOU WON! Let's go home now and plan that Dungeons and Dragons theme Park we have always wanted to build."

Regarding that Mr. Warren is accused of BOTH easy believe-ism and legalism . . . This is only shocking to those who do not understand Reformed teaching, the Bible, or just plain reality. Legalism and Easy believe-ism are two sides of the same fake Galleon. (Lepruchan gold or a thinly veneered bronze Knut???- Discuss amongst yourselves)

The discussion and fuss over legalism always mystified me. I kept thinking "Where are these people?" I went to many churches and never met one, I saw a few on tv but that was it. I later learned that illogical people have never met a straw man they didn't like to take to dodge ball games, because they can knock the stuffing out of him and he can't even yell "Do-over!"

This flip side connection is increasingly evident post modern world-- there are no morals or taboos and we are daily growing more violent, yet we hyperventilate about smoking or the size of our carbon footprint, or whether we use nice words and include everyone properly.

Legalism and Antinomianism are necessary flipsides-- The Pharisees WERE the ones that allowed people to break the spirit and substance of the law by saying "This is Corban" and other such nonsense. If you are antinomian --you must be legalistic. Actual antinomians are as rare as true anarchists, really they are just throwing out the old order to impose a new one. (Generally one that cannot legitimately take over.)

We have an internal need for law the way the Englishman has an need to have words which end in the r sound. For the sake of propriety, and beauty he eliminates the unpleasant "er" sound on words like there, saying "they-ah" only to have them reappear on words like "Bannaner" which sounds horrifying to everyone but him.

Only our laws are bound to be much easier to keep than the true law of God. Since they aren't really important we can all have endless discussions on proper keepage and who is the biggest legalist or hypocrite. The fact that you don't get why he can be called both at the same time reveals more than you know.

To have a Christlike attitude-- False teaching must be pointed out, verbally chastised and the occassional whip taken out to knock down the book tables and starbucks stores now present in our churches... If you really want to find converts go OUT to the REAL Starbucks and discuss. Don't expect the fish to hop in your ice chest man.

(OK so I swill coffee whilst reading a good many books, but I try not to confuse this activity with worship or especially not with making disciples, admittedly, both may be accidental by-products of such activity. My deep sounding discussions are only overweening pride at being semi-literate and coffee, while popular at present, produces a breath not winsome. The law of God is alas ever with me ever convicting and the Gospel ever pardoning. And I am ever being reformed.

This post like this thread lost the eye of the needle along time ago!!

RL Schultz

Chris-
Thank you for this wonderful blog! The faithful and discerning Christians here have certainly "outed" Rick Warren and his lapdog, Richard Abanes. The best that I can say about Rick Warren is that he is a pompous fool and a wolf in sheep's clothing. Every time that a false prophet is exposed, there are always those who will rush to their defense. I also believe that the argument that says "we can glean something good" from the PDL baloney is wishful thinking at best. I know many sincere Christians who rushed out to get the PDL when it first came out. It has proved to be a fad as Rick Warren has moved on to "bigger and better things" with his P.E.A.C.E. plan and playing kissy-face with the U.N.

Tim Brown

Abanes said:

"Public debates are bad enough, let alone a public debate about an issue like this, when more than enough information has been exchanged to bring clarity."

So, what on earth was he even here for???

RL Schultz

Chris-
Thank you for this wonderful blog! The faithful and discerning Christians here have certainly "outed" Rick Warren and his lapdog, Richard Abanes. The best that I can say about Rick Warren is that he is a pompous fool and a wolf in sheep's clothing. Every time that a false prophet is exposed, there are always those who will rush to their defense. I also believe that the argument that says "we can glean something good" from the PDL baloney is wishful thinking at best. I know many sincere Christians who rushed out to get the PDL when it first came out. It has proved to be a fad as Rick Warren has moved on to "bigger and better things" with his P.E.A.C.E. plan and playing kissy-face with the U.N.

TC Rez

How tragic it is to read these blogs and see Christians slamming each other because they want to take a simple illustration by a kind, caring man, analyze it to death and twist it into something unbiblical. What is so unbiblical about a second chance? I, for one, went down a very bad path in my late teens and I thank God every day for the second chance He gave me to get right with Him.

My unsaved in-laws attended this Christmas service at Saddleback and they understood exactly what he was talking about. Am I sitting around obsessing over the terminology Rick Warren used and picking it apart so that I can demonstrate to my fellow Christian brothers and sisters my deep theological knowledge? No, I am continuing to pray for my in-laws salvation.

Some of you might want to find more productive ways to spend your time, like praying for the lost. I'm sure you know some people that don't know the Lord, don't you?

matt

I love how the abbreviation for The Message is "Mes" aka the Mess, or as I like to call it "The Massage" version, because that's what it is..

No mention of sin here.

Mulligan

Could the mulligan story be a link to, and an ad for, a Ken Blanchard book?

http://www.themulligan.org/

"God is the architect" = masonic reference?

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