One of the statements that surprised me the most at the Purpose Driven Community Gathering was when Rick Warren said that he believed that “Repentance was the central message of the New Testament”. Even more shocking was hearing Warren claim that the primary goal of all of his sermons was ‘repentance’.
Up until I heard Warren say these words I believed that Warren’s sermons were completely devoid of repentance. The reason why I believed that is because in all the sermons I have heard Warren preach (I listen to them all), I couldn’t recall as single time where I had heard him say the word ‘repent’ or ‘repentance’. Warren’ sermons always seem chock full of practical advice and simple applications but I can’t recall the last time I heard Warren rail against sin and call people to repent of their sins and believe the gospel for the forgiveness of sins.
Well, it turns out that there is a reason why I never heard Warren say those words. At the conference Warren clearly stated that he always preaches for repentance but that he does so in a way whereby he doesn’t actually say the word “repentance”.
This revelation tweeked my view of Warren and his preaching philosophy. Where I once thought Warren’s sermons were all practical self-help feel good sermons, I now believe that Warren primarily preaches the law and only on the rarest of rare occasions does he preach the gospel.
Definition of the Gospel – many people have a difficult time defining the gospel. Thankfully, 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 gives us a clear and concise definition of the gospel. Here is how scripture defines the gospel: “Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.”
In his lecture on Purpose-Driven Preaching Warren made it unmistakably clear that the goal of Purpose-Driven Preaching is obedience. This is why Warren’s sermons are heavy on application and practical ‘how to’ information. In classic Warren sound-bite style he claimed that “the problem with a lot of preaching is that it produces learners instead of doers.” One of Warren’s recurring mantra’s was that Christians already know more information than they are putting into practice. Said Warren, “Too many people are informed but not transformed.”
The ahah moment came for me when Warren emphatically claimed “THE central message of the New Testament is repentance.” It was at that moment that I fully understood that Rick Warren is a pietist and that the preaching philosophy employed by Warren is nothing less than the 21st Century incarnation of Wesleyan Methodism. (I mean that in the nicest way possible). In other words, with the goal of PD preaching being ‘obedience’ the only thing you could count on hearing Sunday after Sunday is God’s Law, do this, or don’t do that, along with practical information (methods) on how to do this or don’t do that. The underlying assumption is that by applying the information or methods given in any particular sermon a person will become ‘more obedient’ to God.
Armed with this insight I was able to discuss this directly with Warren.
In my face to face meeting with Pastor Rick I directly challenged him on his claim that repentance is the central message of the New Testament. I told Warren that his claim was inaccurate because it was only HALF TRUE.
(BTW, I was not being unloving or unkind in telling Warren that he was wrong because he was only half right. Warren himself uses this exact same argument against some of his critics on page 234 of the Purpose Driven Church.)
I then pointed Warren to Luke chapter 24:46-47. This text states.
[Jesus] said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Jesus himself, in Luke’s version of the ‘great commission’ instructs the disciples to preach a twin message of repentance AND the forgiveness of sins in Jesus’ name. I pointed this out to Pastor Warren and told him that what is conspicuously missing from his sermons (I listen to them all) is the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name. Furthermore, I gave him examples from his own sermons where he gave practical ‘how to’ information but never once dealt with the most important ‘application’ of how Jesus Christ’s death on the cross applies to me and how Jesus Christ forgives me of the all the times when I have sinned and not been obedient to God.
The problem with Purpose-Driven Preaching is that it emphasizes ‘naked obedience’ but the message of ‘Christ crucified for sins’ is almost always omitted.
This approach blurs law and gospel and makes it appear that we are made right before God by our own efforts.
Gal. 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Why is Purpose-Driven Preaching Dangerous?
When was the last time that you told your spouse that you loved him or her? If your marriage is anything like mine then you’d say that you constantly tell your partner that you love them many times a day. To not do so would be unthinkably cruel.
Imagine what your marriage would be like if you told your wife or husband, “I told you once that I loved you and I don’t feel any reason to keep on telling you that. In fact, you should just assume that I love you and if anything changes I’ll let you know.”
If I had said that to my wife then I would be a divorced man. The fact is, telling my wife that I love her and hearing her say that she loves me is vital to the health of our marriage. When I tell my wife I love her I am not conveying useless and redundant information. Instead, I am again summing up the vows I made to her on our wedding day and letting her know that despite the fact that we’ve been through better and worse and have been richer and poorer and that despite all the disagreements and challenges that we’ve faced and struggled through that I still passionately love her and no one else. It’s not mere information that I am conveying to my wife when I tell her I love her. I am sharing my heart with her. My marriage could not survive without it and neither could yours.
What holds true for a marriage also holds true in our relationship with God. I need to hear that God loves me and forgives me constantly. This is not mere information that we are talking about. This is one critical facet of Christian preaching that cannot be neglected because all of us still sin, daily, hour by hour, minute by minute and trying harder to be more obedient and sinning less cannot and does not absolve us of our sins nor does it quiet our guilty consciences. Even though I have been a Christian nearly all of my life (I am 40 years old) I still need to hear God tell me that He loves me and forgives me of my sins. I need to hear this gospel message just as often as I need to hear my wife tell me that she loves me.
If I do not hear the gospel but instead only hear that I must try harder or apply certain steps in order to be more obedient or change my life then I am likely to despair and begin to believe that God only loves me based upon my performance and despair and think that God doesn’t love me anymore because of my lack of obedience. Even worse, I may become self-deceived like the Pharisees and think that I am more favored by God because of my better obedience. (That is not the Christian faith. That is self-righteousness.)
Oddly enough Rick Warren perfectly understands the importance of stating something over and over. In the Purpose-Driven Church on page 117 Warren said:
“Don’t assume that a single sermon on your church’s purposes will permanently set the direction of your church. Don’t suppose that by printing your purposes in the bulletin everyone has learned them, or even read them! One widely known law of advertising is that a message must be communicated seven times before it sinks in.At Saddleback we use as many different channels as we can think of to keep our purposes before our church family.
In my face to face meeiting with Pastor Warren I challenged him to preach the Gospel, the message of the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name, every single Sunday. Why? Not only is this what Jesus' told us to preach, but I understand the importance of stating something over and over. In fact, I think it is utterly tragic and borderline criminal of Warren to not be as committed to over communicating the Gospel as he is to over communicating his church’s purposes. Imagine if that passage of the PDC read:
Don’t assume that a single sermon on the gospel will permanently fix the gospel in people’s minds and hearts. Don’t suppose that by printing the gospel in the bulletin that everyone will understand the depths of Christ’s love and mercy to them. At Saddleback we use as many different channels as we can think of to keep the gospel before our church family.”
Before I publish my next installment on my Purpose-Driven critique I invite you to listen to what I consider to be the most tragic sermon I have ever heard Rick Warren preach.
The title of the Sermon is “Breaking Free From Persistent Temptation”.
You can view the sermon notes by clicking here.
The tragedy of this sermon is that Warren shares the private struggles, sins and temptations of some of those who attend Saddleback. You can hear and feel their despair. Yet, never once in the sermon does Warren comfort these people with the good news of the forgiveness of sins won for them by Christ on the Cross. Instead, Warren gives 7 applications for not giving in to sin. Warren only preached ‘repentance’ but was only half right because he omitted the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name. Even more tragic is the fact that this is the typical Warren sermon.
So as I told Warren to his face, I will now say again. Pastor Warren you are wrong about repentance being the central message of the New Testament because you are only half right. Repent and preach BOTH repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name as our Lord has instructed.
Chris, a question. Can a person be saved through the Purpose-Driven presentation of the gospel since you say it is "Christless Christianity". And can a person who preaches a "Christless Christianity" be saved?
His point is that there is "A" Christ, but it is not "THE" Christ. The Roman Catholic Church also has "A" Christ, but it is not "THE" Christ. The real Jesus doesn't need us to go to His "mommy."
Posted by: Ken Silva | June 05, 2008 at 03:41 PM
Ken - then I conclude that if a person is not preaching THE Christ a sinner cannot believe in A Christ and be saved. Therefore no one can be saved through the PDL model and preaching. Is that accurate?
Posted by: Rick Frueh | June 05, 2008 at 03:50 PM
Rick-let me ask you a question. Is there a limit to what God can do should He choose to?
Posted by: Ken Silva | June 05, 2008 at 04:11 PM
"Chris, a question. Can a person be saved through the Purpose-Driven presentation of the gospel since you say it is "Christless Christianity". And can a person who preaches a "Christless Christianity" be saved?"
I would like to point out that if God could raise stones and make them His people, He can certainly work in a poor PDL presentation of the gospel, no matter how watered-down it is! That I think is great news in itself! But I don't think it makes it RIGHT to preach the way RW does, because that's pragmatic, "ends justify the means".
Posted by: Zek | June 05, 2008 at 04:13 PM
Oops one more thing :-)
I think anything else puts God in a box, God is not "boxed" in by anything! IE raising stones to be His people, IE His ways & the depths of His wisdom, is unsearchable by me just a "worm" saved by grace, chiefest of sinners!
Posted by: Zek | June 05, 2008 at 04:18 PM
Good, ageed.
Posted by: Rick Frueh | June 05, 2008 at 04:19 PM
Chris,
Would you be so kind as to clarify your "Christless Christianity" comment. As someone who found God's forgiveness at Saddleback, I can't believe that you are suggesting my salvation is somehow "counterfeit". In fact, I am interpreting your comment to mean that the "self-help" approach of alot of Warren's preaching could be misunderstood by non-believers and believers alike to this extent: they conclude erroneously that somehow their justification or sanctification is based on their own efforts.
Thank you.
Posted by: John Draper | June 05, 2008 at 05:42 PM
Rick,
It would appear that we are. 8^)
Posted by: Ken Silva | June 05, 2008 at 06:12 PM
Richard,
Thanks for staying in the conversation. We may be at a dead end but let me see if can back us up so that we can get out of the Cul-de-sac.
In order to do that I want to tell you about just how sinful and sick with sin I am.
You asked if I believed that preaching about managing your time better was ‘preaching the law’. I answered yes. Let me tell you about the sins that I’ve committed (as a Christian) in the area of time management.
I have struggled with procrastination my entire life. I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I have squandered my time doing unimportant and wasteful things when I should have been working on a project, doing homework, spending time with my wife, playing with my kids, visiting my grandparents etc. The correct way to describe me when it comes to time management is selfish. Even that doesn’t even correctly describe the depths of the ugliness of my sin when it comes to time management. In order to rein this sin in I’ve been to Franklin Covey time management seminars, read books and attended classes. Everything that I’ve tried has petered out over time. Overall, there has been some improvement but even when I am doing what I should be doing I still in my heart want to be doing something else.
You see Richard, I am totally depraved. When it comes to time management I have sinned so terribly that I deserve God’s wrath and punishments both in this life and the life to come AND I AM A CHRISTIAN.
So, Richard I don’t need good advice, I need good news. Am I going to burn in hell for all of the sins that I’ve committed in regard to time management? Can God forgive me for all of these sins? Will God forgive me for them or is there a limit to God’s grace? What if there is a limit and I have exceeded it? I’ve already asked God to forgive me for these sins tens of thousands of times. Can God forgive me the next ten thousand times I ask him to forgive me?
Richard I am sick with sin. I don’t need good advice I need good news.
Don’t even get me started on the other three areas. I am so depraved and sinful that I don’t even know what it means to be heavenly minded and prioritize my life accordingly and I read the Bible through several times a year. My priorities are so far out of whack compared to what God would have them be that they could only be described as wickedly selfish. As for forgiveness, that is always so difficult. My first inclination when someone has wronged me is to knock their block off and according to God’s perfect law that inclination is sinful and murderous. As for living as if it were our last day’s on earth, you’ve got to be kidding me. I am a selfish and wickedly sinful man.
Richard, I do not love God with all of my heart, I have taken the Lord’s name in vain, I have not kept the Sabbath, I have not honored and obeyed my parents, I have murdered, I have committed adultery, I have stolen, I have lied and I have coveted like there is no God.
All of these sins I have committed since becoming a Christian. All of these sins I have committed this week.
You see Richard, I am sick with sin through and through. I am desperate because God’s word says that I deserve wrath, punishment and hell for all eternity for these sins that I have committed and I am terrified because I know that God is just. I don’t need good advice right now. I need good news.
Telling me to repent and change my mind just won’t cut it. I already know and believe that all of these things that I have done and continue to do are sinful and wrong and contrary to what the one true and holy God expects and demands from me. The cow is already out of the barn for me. I can’t go back and undo these sins and ‘trying harder’ and doing better is just not going to be enough. So I don’t need ‘good advice’ right now.
Have you got any good news to offer me?
Posted by: Chris Rosebrough | June 05, 2008 at 07:05 PM
"Have you got any good news to offer me?"
Get the second blessing and be free! Or continue to repent and believe the gospel. Not much of a choice. :)
Posted by: Rick Frueh | June 05, 2008 at 07:24 PM
Chris that last post is so true of me also. I am also glad for Richard that he can fulfill all those requirements and so doesn't have to be concerned with how he falls short.
Posted by: Paula | June 05, 2008 at 08:07 PM
Dear Chris:
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light" (Matthew 11:28-30).
Love in Christ,
Bud
Posted by: Bud Press | June 05, 2008 at 08:08 PM
John Draper -- see www.whitehorseinn.org
Their audio series (look for the links or go to Oneplace.com and look for their ministry and the archived shows) this year is entitled Christless Christianity. It's been excellent. Although there was one episode I took issue with on "radical informality" which seemed kind of a side issue. The rest has been very instructional and helpful to those of us who need a doctor and need good news. Not "I can do it!" kind of preaching.
I am also listening to their Romans series (05?) via CD's borrowed from a friend. I just re-listened to one where Shane Rosenthal interviewed pastors at the National pastor's conference in 2005 on "is justification a one time declaration or a lifelong process?"
It was very very sad how few of them got that essential question right. But the show itself, the explanation of justification (vs sanctification) was like a drink of cool clean water in the desert.
(I am thinking of that moment in Black Hawk Down after those soldiers, having run 12 miles back to base in the desert heat, are presented with many trays of water in tall clear glasses, and nothing was a more blessed sight!)
Posted by: paula | June 05, 2008 at 08:14 PM
Bud - amen. And Chris knows that. But if we come to the "jesus" that makes us tithe, make more and more public vows, get busier and busier in seeker sensitive church programs, Do more do more do more...do all these 'steps' to make us 'better' -- that Jesus won't give us rest.
Posted by: Paula | June 05, 2008 at 08:17 PM
I read that RW claims to be a Kuyper- Calvinist or Neo Calvinist:
-abraham kuyper-
He developed so-called Neo-Calvinism, which differs from conventional Calvinism over issues such as divine grace and the role of the state. Furthermore, Kuyper was the first to formulate the principle of common grace in the context of a Reformed world-view.
-here is divine grace-
Put another way, humankind is unable to evolve or be saved without God's grace; it is a prerequisite to salvation. Additionally, humans cannot exchange good deeds for it. It is a free gift from God. Thus, humankind is saved all by grace and not by some combination, mixture, or blending of good works and divine grace. Were it achieved by works, humans could take pride in their efforts towards holiness.
So why does RW teach works?
Has anyone heard RW preach the doctrines of grace, IE TULIP, Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints?
I’m guessing, no! I would even goes as far as say you mention Unconditional Election to a Saddleback member and you will get a comment like, ahh you are one of those Christians??
Being a Calvinist of any flavor, would require RW to take a stand on these doctrinal truths, and that would make some people disagree with him, doctrine can create “sides” and I just do see him taking a stand either way on any of TULIP, do you?
I don’t think the flip-side of election, or “reprobation” IE God creating some of humanity as vessels of wrath with no chance of salvation being a big draw at Saddleback???
Posted by: Zek | June 05, 2008 at 08:36 PM
Not to mention the PDL book makes a claims to "say this short prayer" & welcome to the family, this sounds totally Arminian to me?
Posted by: Zek | June 05, 2008 at 08:48 PM
zek -- naw ya think? :-)
Those who have a high opinion of their own ability won't see how far they fall short, nor feel condemned by the preaching of the law (man made law and tradition, not God's law even!) that RW does. And they'll be fine with RW's arminian or semi-pelagian approach. After all, growing in Christ has to be a "deliberate effort..."
analogy: I'll tell that to my kid while feeding him only sugar: "You're still too small and sickly! Make more effort to grow! Do your chores and you will grow!"
Posted by: paula | June 05, 2008 at 09:15 PM
Rick Warren's theology can be summarized as follows:
1) Repentance without preaching sin. Preaching the law in a positive way (Robert Schuller's style) through self improvement tips instead of condemning the sinner and leading him to knowledge of sin as the apostle Paul taught.
2) No forgiveness of sin preached, since nobody is convicted as a sinner to begin with. Just more life improvement tips
I have little doubt in my mind that Warren has changed the gospel, made it seeker sensitive (sinner friendly) which is no gospel at all. He is using psychology to make the gospel more acceptable to man, a positive gospel that is trying to improve lives. The problem with this is that this is not the way Jesus, Peter, Paul, and John preached. At the end of the day God will judge Rick Warren, but let me say a couple of things:
1) Warren's gospel doesn't pass the test when compared to the New Testament gospel.
2) A gospel such as Rick Warren's will never be able to produce christians that are humbled before almighty God, christians that love and forgive.
3) Rick Warren can probably make "better" people in the eyes of man, but so can budhism, hinduism, and secular psychology. His celebrate recovery program may have cured addicts or improved communications skills that made people better in their jobs, give hope in life to people that were close to suicide etc. But none of this is exclusive to the christian faith, all this is shared by every faith and by atheists as well. Why? Because the essence of all these programs is not the cross, the essence is self improvement and the cross is secondary. That's why PDL has been used in synagogues, mosques, mormon temples etc. It works with any religion.
Posted by: Bill | June 05, 2008 at 09:36 PM
This post was very informative to read and helped me understand better just what the message of Rick Warren is. I think the PDC message is one that leans towards "works" or "law" and only sporadically focuses on grace and the forgiveness of sins. I see this also being taught in churches that are adopting PDC methods.....
Posted by: Michelle | June 06, 2008 at 08:32 AM
Rick Freuh,
You asked me, ""I guess my question to you, Chris, is when is it okay to talk about how we ought to live?"
Since I believe that the Christian message is BOTH repentance AND the forgiveness of sins the answer to your question is every Sunday. And when you exegete God's word and discuss how we should live make sure that the how is always done in light of God's mercy to us. And for those that have not lived as they ought (that will be everyone in your congregation including yourself) offer the comforting promises of the forgiveness of sins through Christ's death on the cross and resurrection from grave.
Posted by: Chris Rosebrough | June 06, 2008 at 09:29 AM
Chris,
Thanks for your response to Rick...you were actually responding to a question I initially asked. I think I agree with your answer, but when you agree that everyone in a congregation have not lived (and will not live) "as they ought", how do you overlay "the comforting promises of the forgiveness of sins through Christ's death on the cross..." with verses like:
John 8:10-11 - Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
John 14:15 - If you love me, you will obey what I command.
I know that everyone who posts here and on A Little Leaven does not speak for you, Chris, but this was a comment posted a couple weeks ago regarding homosexuality that cited John 14:15:
"Christianity : Homosexuality :: Raid : Bugs
If a Homo gets truly saved, he's not going to be a homo for much longer."
Setting aside the flippant tone of this post, I find this attitude so common regarding certain sins (homosexuality, for example). That is, once Christ is part of your life, sins like homosexuality are eradicated. If you're still struggling with homosexuality, than maybe you need to check you salvation.
But when it comes to sins that might be struggled with more commonly (like procrastination, generosity, or gossiping), the same folks who hold attitudes reflected in the above quote are more than happy to say that the death and resurrection of Jesus covers over a multitude of sins (even those that we continue committing).
So, is there a distinction that I'm missing here (quite possible)? Or is this a contradiction that many Christians perpetuate?
In your most recent post, Chris, you say: "And for those that have not lived as they ought (that will be everyone in your congregation including yourself) offer the comforting promises of the forgiveness of sins through Christ's death on the cross and resurrection from grave."
But what happens when the sin continues? On and on, even as it is accompanied by repentence? Do we say the repentence was not real? What level of "turning away" represents true repentence? If eradication of sin is impossible (which I agree that it is in this life), then what should be expected from a Christ follower?
Posted by: Plankman | June 06, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Plankman,
I hate to give you a homework assignment because it makes me look like I am some kind of snooty professor type. (I really am not though). But, I need to give you a homework assignment.
I'd like you to read this article on Gospel-Centered Sanctification and let me know if it answers most of the questions that you have brought up.
As for the homosexuality issue. Let me say this, my sins are not any better or worse than homosexuality. I think there is an issue when someone tries to identify themselves as a Christian and that person still persists in unrepentance regarding their sins. The t-shirt that was featured at A Little Leaven made it sound like a person could be unrepentantly homosexual and also be a Christian. A guess a similar example would be if I enjoyed sleeping with prostitutes and rather than acknowledge that as a sin that I needed to repent of instead had t-shirts printed that said, "Whoremonger and Christian". That is just wrong and also demonstrates a fundamental mis-understanding of the Gospel.
Posted by: Chris Rosebrough | June 06, 2008 at 01:43 PM
Chris,
Thank you for being so honest about sin here. Sometimes I think that I and maybe a few other Lutherans must be the only poor miserable sinners left in this world. I firmly believe that I, like the Apostle Paul, am the worst of all sinners. Sin is not just bad thinking, bad behavior, bad habits, etc.. Sin is part of my nature. Sin is none other than unbelief. I daily need to be saved from my unbelief. Good advice, and Biblical instruction may help me in my daily earthly life, but they are not the most important things I need from Christ and His church. Only the Gospel of Jesus has the power to daily renew my faith. I need the law to remind me of my sinfulness, and then I need Christ in His Gospel to rescue me from my sinful self. If I am cut off from hearing, eating and drinking the Gospel Word, I am dead. If I do not receive Jesus in the Gospel, I do not receive His faith, and I do not receive His life.
Posted by: haus | June 06, 2008 at 10:23 PM
Chris,
Rick Warren is absolutely a pietist and I also mean that in the most kindest way. His trend is revivalism.
However, the term pietist or pietism is not something modern evangelicals understand. They are in it but do not know of it.
I for one only got to recognize it after studying the First Protestants or the First Evangelicals.
LPC
Posted by: L P Cruz | June 12, 2008 at 12:57 AM
Chris: Just listened to you on the Mike Corley show.
You referenced a message Rick Warren gave about Heaven and Hell. When it comes to salvation you talked about it being God's decision, not man's, and that's one of the major problem you have with Rick Warren's preaching. You talked about 2 doors being the backdrop during this message on Heaven and Hell and that they said "God's Way" and My Way" and implied that by Rick saying "You have a choice to make" he was somehow going against Scripture because it's God's decision, not man's.
Maybe it is fully in keeping with God's "decision" that the person is there on that particular day to hear Rick say to them that they have to make a choice...and that their hearing, "it's either God's way or my way" is part of God's perfect overall plan. That it's God's decision that the person hears about this life-altering choice from a man (Rick), the Holy Spirit moves their heart, and they do indeed have a decision to make: to turn their life over to Christ or not. Either way, God knows about it in advance. So how can Rick, being merely a tool that God is working through, be labeled incorrect in saying to someone "You have a decision to make"?
Rick Warren is clear that it is the Holy Spirit who opens they blind eyes of lost hearts and that the sacrifice of Jesus and His Amazing Grace is what saves. But just as we can go into the hurting world and "be the hands and feet of Jesus" as we minister, I also believe that we can speak of things in a way that people (especially the unchurched) are capable of understanding without putting any compromise on the primary work of the Holy Spirit.
I enjoyed listening to the audio clip of your interview with Corley. You said a lot about tone that I'm praying sinks into the hearts of many Christian bloggers.
Thanks for keeping the dialog going. Even if we disagree on some things, thanks for keeping it civil.
Posted by: catransplant48 | June 12, 2008 at 03:09 AM
Mr. Abanes,
I must protest your characterization of Lutherans as perpetrators of "carnal living and full blown antinomianism." We believe, teach and confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean because we have not kept the good and wise Ten Commandments in thought, word, and deed. We embrace the Law that puts to death the old Adam in us and the Gospel that gives new life in the new Adam, Jesus Christ. To call us antinomian (those who teach that the law is obsolete and has no place in the Church) goes against our teaching and practice. I invite you to read Luther's "Antinomian Theses" at this address:
http://www.lutheranpress.com/docs/DTMT-fulltext.pdf
Furthermore, to address your accusation of carnal living, we plead GUILTY. We are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners. Luther comforts us with the Gospel in a letter to Philip Melancthon dated August 1, 1521: "Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world."
May you be comforted by the same.
In Christ, Our Savior,
Scott Gercken
Posted by: Scott Gercken | June 13, 2008 at 03:37 PM
"Imagine what your marriage would be like if you told your wife or husband, “I told you once that I loved you and I don’t feel any reason to keep on telling you that. In fact, you should just assume that I love you and if anything changes I’ll let you know.”"
Just wanted to let you know that I quoted you on my blog. I've been looking for a good analogy of why we need to gospel every day. This one is excellent!
Posted by: John T Meche III | July 11, 2008 at 04:35 PM
this is so good to hear.
Posted by: aruba wedding | May 03, 2009 at 09:21 PM