The Downside of Finding Your "Purpose"

Bill Cosby tells a story about a friend who tried to convince him to try cocaine by claiming that it enhances one's personality. Cosby's retort was classic. He asked, "Yeah, but what if you're a jerk?" (Cosby actually used a stronger word)

I think the same principle applies to being "Purpose-Driven" and "finding your purpose".

Comments

[catransplant48]

Douglas,

You wrote: "You are not "free in Christ" to treat church like a window shopper." Where does it say that in the Bible?"

For heaven's sake, Doug. Does every word you speak or every sentence that comes forth from your mouth Scripture? Did Rick Warren claim that this quote was from the Bible??

You also write: "Who sets himself as the spokesperson to confirm what God blesses and what God does not bless? What is the guideline to test what God is blessing or not? What is the criteria to discern what God is blessing or not? How do we prove what God is blessing or not?"

Thank you, you just proved the point of my last posting.

You referred to a 40 days study in a Lutheran church: "That particular church purchased over 100 of Warren's books and then handed out copies for free to share with guest and visitors. Notice the terms "guests and visitors." Not "lost and blind sinners."

Oh yes, when I was mired in my sins and felt like dirt and like I lived in the gutter I would have just LOVED finally finding the courage to crawl through the church doors only to hear someone telling me I was a "lost and blind sinner".

You write about: "the new rock music, the new dress down look, and all the "cultural changes" which make many fundamentalists uncomfortable"

Rick Warren has said time and time again that Saddleback Church isn't for everyone. That's not a slam against any other church; it's a statement of fact. Not every congregation is my "cup of tea". I went to several churches before deciding I wanted to attend and then become a member of Saddleback Church.

I could go on, but I think this more than adequately demonstrates some serious flaws in your logic.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to be able to get past the fact that just because something isn't presented the way you would like, God doesn't have the ability to bless it. Last time I checked the Scriptures, God could do anything. Why would anyone set limitations on what God can and does do based upon personal preferences? That's not scriptural and it's just not logical.

[Douglas]

I am not permitted to let my love be so merciful as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered, neither love nor patience are in order...when these are concerned, neither toleration nor mercy are in order, but only anger, dispute, and destruction - to be sure, only with the Word of God as our weapon. - Martin Luther

Rick Warren preaches and teaches a Purpose Driven Gospel, a gospel which I believe is another gospel. Does that make me angry? It sure does. The Bible says doesn't it, to be angry and sin not, let not the sun go down upon our wrath. Rick Warren is becoming more powerful than the Pope and the Pope is a real wolf in sheep's clothing, proclaiming his Roman Catholicism rot in Australia this week. I sure am glad he is not coming to New Zealand.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton, Letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887

"Preaching is the proclamation of the word of God to men by men under assignment from God. It is the ordained means for the transmission of the word of God to a lost world; it serves also as an official means of grace for the building up and strengthening of the church of Christ....Preaching is essential, a sine qua non for the church; without it the people of God will languish. Where true biblical, systematic and expository preaching is present the church will thrive. - Paul Mizzi

"Why don't we just quit preaching? Considering the widespread popularity of engaging anecdotes and vivid vignettes, wouldn't it be more effective to simply tell a few captivating stories on Sunday Morning? And why think specifically about expositional preaching - that brand so often associated with excruciating boredom and half-empty pews? In our fast paced society of sports tickers and sound bite infotainment, can we really expect anyone to have the patience for a serious exposition of an ancient text? In an age that has developed a pungent distaste for the exclusivity of religious truth, how can the authoritative tone of expositional preaching hold any promise at all? In a voyeuristic culture inundated with glossy magazines and risqué sitcoms, maybe pastors would be wise to modernize - quit the text-centered approach and accommodate to our culture's predilection for the visual. So… what do you think? Why preach? - Expositional Preaching

Gospel Preaching Commanded
A.W Pink

There are those who misrepresent the doctrine of election in this way: Here I am sitting down at my table tonight with my family to tea. It is a cold winter’s night, and outside on the street are some hungry starving tramps and children, and they come and knock at my door and they say, “We are so hungry, Sir, Oh, we are so hungry and cold, and we are starving: won’t you give us something to eat?” “Give you something to eat? No, you do not belong here, get off with you.” Now people say that is what election means, that God has spread the gospel feast and some poor sinners conscious of their deep need come to the Lord and say, “Have mercy upon me,” and the Lord says, “No, you are not among My elect.” Now, my friends, that is not the teaching of this Book, nor anything like that. That is absolutely a false representation of God’s truth. I do not believe anything like that, my friends, and I would not insult you by asking you to come here night by night and listen to anything like that.

PREACHING CHRIST ALONE

If our preaching does not center on Christ--from Genesis to Revelation--no matter how good or helpful, it is not a proclamation of God's Word.
Michael S. Horton
©1993, 1999 Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals

If someone comes to me and ask me genuinely, to show them the truth, even asking me to show the error they are caught up in, I will certainily, with God's help do that with the utmost gentleness and respect. When it comes to wolves in sheep's clothing and false teachers, gentleness and respect are not in order. I do not respect false teachers, tortureres of God's word, one bit, I have no respect for them and to treat them with gentlenss, where does is it say in the Scriptures to treat distorter's and twisters of God's Holy Word with "gentleness and respect." Is not open rebuke and reproving more in order?

If I am erring here please show me it is so by plain proof of Scripture. Show by Scripture how we are to handle twisters of God's Holy Word. Point out my sins by the Word of God so as I can confess them and forsake them, true repentance in action.

1 Timothy 1:18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

I am sorry for sounding so hard and harsh and unloving, that is not my intention. My heart motive is of agape. I come from a bike gang/prison inmate background with minimal schooling and led a very violent life up until I was born again. So at times I do realize I sound gruff and ruff, at least I do not use the flowery words as often as I used to. I have a real struggle with my thought life at times, which thankfully is being transformed by the renewing and washing of the Word of God. But one thing I do really hate and detest is false teaching. I do not hate the false teachers but I will expose their false teachings the best I can, as often as I can. I am a Christian and I love using Monergism.com as a tool to help me understand the Bible and the Christian life. I marvel in the doctrines of Grace because I know without a doubt I was a lake of fire deserving unrepentant sinner once upon a time. God's amazing Grace amazes me every moment of my life and that all purposes are designed for God's purposes which are too numerous to count. Who are you LORD, is the most important question anyone can ask in this life. God is aseity. God is holy. God is love. God is angry with the wicked every day and He hates the workers of iniquity. God is all knowing, all powerful, fully present everywhere at once. God is invisible to the naked eye but reveals Himself to His people through His word. It is all about YOU o God, all about YOU. I am but a grasshopper, a nothing, a sinful human being created in God's image, a pile of dust with skin wrapped around me to stop me from spilling out upon the ground.

[Rock]

Catransplant.....
Getting back to Bill Cosby's comment and relating that to scripture: Do you remember in the Bible when the Lord caused an "ass" to speak?? I think it would be more of a miracle to cause one to stop!

[Chad]

"and to call Jesus "Lord,Lord", while not doing the Father's will. "

Karen - What exactly is the Father's will?

peace,
Chad

[wilson_granger]

John the Baptist, Jesus and the apostles never define the gospel as a personal journey to discover your purpose.

[Douglas]

1 Thessalonians 5:20do not despise prophetic utterances. 21But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; 22abstain from every form of evil.

The Purpose Driven Life has been examined very carefully, by me and by many others more educated and skilled and loving than me and has been found to be not good. It has been weighed and found wanting. Twisting God's holy Word like Rick Warren does is evil. I want nothing to do with it. Rick Warren needs to thoroughly renounce his Purpose Driven Life Movement, loudly and clearly, for all to hear and see. He needs to admit the whole concept is wrong and that he has sinfully distorted Scriptures in the process. He needs to confess those sins to God and come out from the whole Purpose Driven Movement, it is more binding and legalistic than the Roman Catholic Organization. But while he proudly and boastfully carries on in his present course he will not see. He cannot see, he has closed his eyes and plugged up his ears to all legitimate critiques including pastor Bob DeWaay's excellent book; "Redefining Christianity: Understanding the purpose Driven Movement," available in book form and in a 15 part audio form, for free, here:

Redefining Christianity Radio Broadcasts

Rick Warren's decisional regeneration prayer in his Purpose Driven Life Book and in his videos saves no one. If someone is saved during praying that prayer it will be in spite of it not because of it. The majority of the millions that pray Warren's prayer are being deceived by Rick Warren into thinking they are now Christians and worst of all, on Rick Warren's say so. See pages 58-59 PDL.

Have a look and listen to the video of Warren's available through here:

Critique: The Evangelism Message of Rick Warren

"We were pleased to have a member for two decades of Saddleback church visiting with us this week, in the comments of another post on Old Truth. I always appreciate these opportunities because it gives us a chance to interact with an expert witness of sorts. As he repeatedly challenged us to watch Rick Warren's evangelism video as a demonstration that the old truth was still being preached at Saddleback, I decided to take him up on that challenge. Here is my analysis of that 13 minute evangelism presentation."

See if Rick Warren even remotely proclaims the true gospel message in his invitation there. Is it adequate enough? I agree with what is said in the above article. I would go even further and say no one is saved by praying Rick Warren's deceptive prayer. Well meaning? Maybe. But being well meaning is no excuse for falsehood, no matter how loving a person may seem to be. Even pagans and heathens love each other. Love is not a unique trait just for Christians. But it is only God and His people that can truly love others with agape.

The only good thing about the Purpose Driven Movement is that all the error that is in it has caused me to dig more diligently into God's Word to find the truth.

Proverbs 2:1My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; 2So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; 3Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. 6For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Many of you Rick Warren defenders and promoters of the Purpose Driven Movement are not even taking the time to read and listen to all that has been presented to you, it is as if it is your life Purpose is to defend Rick Warren and all things Purpose Driven. For me, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is what sets my heart on fire. For me, exposing falsehood is only a portion of the overall. I believe Rick Warren is not born again yet. I read his stuff and I wonder how could a Christian write and teach so much error and twist the Scriptures as much as Rick Warren does??? Surly a Christian doesn't and wouldn't. True? My prayer is that God opens Rick Warren's eyes to the horror of what he has done and what he is continuing to do. God, please cause us all to tremble at your word and give us a glimpse of your august, majestic, awesome, glorious holiness........

[catransplant48]

Douglas, of everything that you have posted, what comes from your heart in the last paragraph of your posting (timed 7:19 PM) gives me the most hope. I'd rather read that than all the other postings you included from other authors because that shows me who you are.

I hope you understand that your opinion of Rick Warren is not shared by everyone. In pronouncing your opinion against RW so vehemently, at times, it comes across as a personal attack against him, and that kind of harsh judgmentalism (and in this case, unfounded judgmentalism) is exactly what turns many unbelievers off to Christianity.

I can also tell you I attend Saddleback every week and RW is in no way, shape or form presenting a so-called "different gospel". The basic tenants of Christianity can be found in his sermons. Yes, some messages give us additional information to help us in this life with the struggles we all face, but the "twisting of scripture" you refer to simply isn't there. The invitation he gives at the end of his messages to invite people to ask the Lord for forgiveness is put forth in a way that has led many people (who were just as lost and dying in sin as you or I) to accept the free gift of eternal life.

Having seen and heard Rick Warren's heart for the lost I could never pass judgment on his motives and methods the way you and others have.

[Douglas]

"Having seen and heard Rick Warren's heart for the lost I could never pass judgment on his motives and methods the way you and others have."

Imo, Rick Warren's heart for the lost is based upon his own Purpose Driven Program, which is a false gospel and saves no one. So I believe Rick Warren does not have a true biblical heart for the lost, he does not realize how lost the lost truly are and he wants the lost to sign on to his Purpose Driven Movement where they will remain lost until a sovereign work of God opens their eyes and God pulls them out of it. Rick Warren's Saddleback's Sunday services are geared towards degenerate sinners, the unchurched, radically corrupt, evil, wicked, sinful people, aren't they? Sunday services are not geared towards believers are they? The true gospel is not preached in all its fullness, both law and grace, but instead a tickling ears message is proclaimed. I have read enough and heard enough of Warren's sermons to discern that. A survey of the lost sinners in the community was done and from that survey Rick Warren crafted a method and message that suits them. Right down to the rock and roll, country and western, Hula dancing music. Rick Warren gives them what they want instead of what they so desperately need, the full-orbed doctrinally sound biblical gospel, which must be preached in season and out of season, in other words, all the time, including every Sunday. It must be full expositional preaching, not all the topical nonsense Warren proclaims. Five steps to this, twelve steps to that, seven things here, three things there, so and so forth and on and on it goes with Warren. Drive one nuts. Driven alright, driven nuts. Rick Warren is a one man bondage maker. The whole Purpose Driven Movement is total control, Rick Warren has total control over his Purpose driven Empire. lo and behold dissenters. I read Warren's posts on Christian post.com from time to time and man does he distort things there as well, on a regular basis too. Here is one from last month which is absolutely unbiblical and no Scriptures to back it up, which is no wonder because the Word of God does not confirm Rick Warren's false teaching there:

How to Share God’s Vision for Your Church
By Rick Warren
Christian Post Guest Columnist
Fri, Jun. 13 2008 10:22 AM EDT

Rick Warren defines what God's vision is for His church rather than going to God's Word and letting God's Word define the vision for His church. Warren uses secular humanistic worldly philosophy and wisdom to teach what he calls "vision casting." And "vision casting" is an anti-biblical man made idea used in business empires and has no place in the Church of the LORD Jesus Christ.

"3. Redefining Vision. Not only has Rick Warren redefined the church but he has also redefined the biblical concept of vision. Vision is a crucial aspect of Warren’s strategy yet, despite providing supposed biblical proof to the contrary, the way he uses this term is different than the way it is used in Scripture where it refers to a type of true or false special revelation. Within the Purpose Driven paradigm, vision is used in a business sense in which a person plans for a future he hopes to implement. Yet those who do not catch the vision of the leadership within a Purpose Driven church are considered dissenters and are often driven from the ranks." - Challies.com

Redefining Christianity, Part 4 - Redefining Vision Presented by Bob DeWaay and Brian Flynn Broadcast Monday, October 2, 2006 In this program Brian Flynn and Bob DeWaay discuss how the Purpose Driven movement uses the term "vision" in the modern corporate marketing sense of "vision casting" rather than the Biblical sense of God's once for all revelation given to the saints. MP3 (duration 00:27:31)

Rick Warren is NO expostional preacher, that is for sure. Rick Warren needs to have a good hard look and study of NEHEMIAH chapter 8. Rick Warren is a topical preacher, preaching how to do this and how to that. He lays heavy burdens upon the backs of the unwary. No thank you.

[Douglas]

Rick Warren Signs on to Ascol’s Resolution
"Comment number 101 on Tom Ascol’s resolution on regenerate church membership comes from a Southern Baptist we all know. In fact, some really admire him; others have dedicated their blogs to expressing their grief over him. Some fundies are having a cow, while other Southern Baptists are encouraged by the broad support as seen in the public endorsement of Tom’s resolution (for the record, I find myself in the second camp). Who is it that I am talking about?"

Apparently Rick Warren made a comment on Tom Ascol's blog in a post talking about regenerate church membership. The link to the post is in Timmy Brewster's post above. Mr. Brewster is an assistant to Tom Ascol now. I found several comments in the thread in the above post very informative. But what I found most informative is something that Mr. Warren said himself, if it was Mr. Warren that said it in the first place. Rick Warren apparently said this: "Never believe second- hand sources about Saddleback. They are ALWAYS wrong." Now that is one of the most arrogant things I have heard Rick Warren say. What Rick Warren said there is a flat out bold face lie. There are many second-hand sources identifying the false teachings and Scripture twistings by Rick Warren that are true. They are NOT always wrong. I read and hear from Rick Warren's own mouth, first- hand myself, things that are wrong at Saddleback and in Rick Warren's false teachings. He is one prideful, sinful, boastful, arrogant man to even say that. I do not trust him or the Purpose Driven Movement one bit. The more it stays in America the better. I do not want his deceitful teachings coming to New Zealand. How is one to ever say who is right or who is wrong with a comment from Warren like that? As Christians we are supposed to search out the Scriptures and see if what one is teaching is true or not. We all trust second-hand sources all the time, Rick Warren is not above scrutiny from second-hand sources. Warren's pride and arrogance knows no bounds. He needs to seriously repent. He needs to take a year off and get right with God.

Rick Warren is one very clever, crafty man, he has a smooth tongue, he is brilliant at covering up his tracks and talking his way out of situations that do not suit him. Telling jokes and using humor as Warren does, is a great way of disarming people, he is skilled at shifting blame. He has propagandists working on his behalf, defending him and all things Purpose Driven (I don't know for sure they have Warren's say so).

Rick Warren can talk about regenerate church membership. The whole Purpose Driven Movement is riddled with degenerate, lost sinners.

[Mike]

"And Mark: At Christmas many unsaved people heard about Jesus for the first time. I know because some unsaved people I know were present at that FOX taping and they told me for the first time they didn't feel like "some preacher was talking down to them" (remember those are the words of the unsaved, unchurched... "seekers") They appreciated Rick's style and the conversational manner he spoke with. There were plenty of opportunities, materials and people ready to pray readily available before and after that taping. Just because you didn't see something happen on camera doesn't mean people weren't saved that night. What's "anemic" in your eyes may be the exact way the Holy Spirit chooses to move a person's heart and mind to be open to the gospel and ultimate salvation. God's timetable and ways, not ours."

It's a shame Noah didn't do this because I'm sure he would have gotten more than eight people on the boat???

I think you are missing Mark's point. You said "we" should not judge Warren and the point is that Warren had the opportunity to clearly teach the Gospel but he didn't. I can only come to the conclusion that it is because it would make him unpopular? You don't sell books by the millions that clearly teach the "offense of the cross". Joel Olsteen is another good example of this. "Your Best Life Now"???? That is true ONLY if you are not a genuine christian! Our life now doesn't even come close to the life to come for those in Christ!
Your best friend will tell you the most truth. Now I ask you, "Is Warren our best friend"?? My wife has cancer. What if her doctor wanted to meet her felt needs and stair-stepped her through this process??? She would be dead! It is no easier to make a "dead man" take one step than it is to take a thousand. If he is dead....he is dead! It takes more power of God to raise one dead sinner than all the power of God to create the universe and when you use the arm of the flesh to meet peoples felt needs you loose the very thing that is most needed.

[Abby]

http://bloodtippedears.blogspot.com/2008/04/evangelism-mans-way-or-gods-way.html

catransplant I hope you take the time to see the difference.

[Jim]

"So I believe Rick Warren does not have a true biblical heart for the lost, he does not realize how lost the lost truly are and he wants the lost to sign on to his Purpose Driven Movement where they will remain lost until a sovereign work of God opens their eyes and God pulls them out of it"
- Douglas

This is passing judgment on a fellow Christian's heart, which only God can see. Scriptures do tell us that we can discern others by their fruit, but only God knows the heart. Your statement passes a very serious judgment on salvation - a judgment reserved for God Himself. You might disagree with his methods, but you are in no position to judge on his or his congregant's salvation.

Matt 7:1-5
"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
NASU

This passage does not teach that judgments should never be made; Matt 7:5 does speak of removing the speck from your brother's eye. The Lord's point was that a person should not be habitually critical or condemnatory of a speck of sawdust in someone else's eye when he has a plank - a strong hyperbole for effect - in his own eye. Such action is hypocritical Though judgment is sometimes needed, those making the distinctions, (judge, means "to distinguish" and thus "to decide") must first be certain of their own lives. So be careful what you say, because none of us is without sin. You may be bringing judgment upon yourself.

[Douglas]

We need to re-study our Bibles

(John Angell James, "The Church in Earnest")

We need to re-study our Bibles, and learn
what real Christianity is--how holy, how heavenly,
how spiritual, how loving, how morally and socially
excellent a matter it is. What separation from the
world, what devoutness, what intense earnestness,
what conscientiousness, what enlarged benevolence,
what unselfishness, what zealous activity, what
unearthliness, what seeds of celestial virtue--our
profession of godliness implies.

Having examined this, and obtained an impressive
idea of it, let us survey our own state, and ask if
we do not need, and ought not to seek, more of the
prevalence of such a piety as this, which, in fact, is
primitive Christianity.

Is our spiritual condition what it ought to be, what
it might be, what it must be--to fulfill our high
commission as the salt of the earth and the light of
the world? A Christian, acting up in some tolerable
measure to his profession, walking in the holiness
of the Gospel--is the strongest and most emphatic
testimony for God to our dark revolted world, next
to that of Christ Himself.

[wilson]

There is a similar slide somewhere about "Division" or "Unity". Does anyone have the link? Can't remember where I found it.

[Jen Neff]

"...the whole Purpose Driven Movement is a man-made idea using Scriptures, often twisted and distorted, and many of them out of their intended context to shore his ideas up. Rick Warren comes up with an idea and goes to the one of the many translations or paraphrase of the bible to confirm his ideas. Crafty. Clever, very clever indeed."
I would like to say "amen" to this. the purpose driven life has so many misquotes of the Bible that it is shameful. anyone who is reading this book should look @ your own Bible as you are reading along & you will find out that the book is saying that your Bible is saying something it is truly not. Try it. Seriously, please try it & you will see what I mean.
Jesus said not to add or take away from His words. This is not a light matter either.
The worst kind of deception is the kind where there is a little bit of truth sprinkled in with it, the Devil knows this for he is the original deceiver. Unfortunately, Mr. Warren is following the same method of operation.