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Rev. Z. Bartels

How could any believer disagree?

Christopher Gillespie

I thought he looked familiar. I was pleasantly surprised and encouraged. I read your blog to be depressed and now you did this to me?!?!

Lyle

Can anyone find a verse where Paul preaches the gospel to one of the churches that he was returning to? I can't seem to find it. If Paul didn't preach the gospel to any of the churches that he returned to, then it would seem that Piper is wrong about the need to have the gospel continually preached to yourself.

Douglas

"....then it would seem that Piper is wrong about the need to have the gospel continually preached to yourself."

I think Mr. Piper is not wrong, but hay, that's what cows eat. I need the Gospel preached to me every moment of the day. Even if it is just preached to me by me that day. Sometimes, I am the only one I'll listen to, stubborn, rebellious, sinful man that I am, even though the LORD speaks to me crystal clearly through His word, the Bible.

Preach the Gospel to Yourself
by Mark Mullery

Jerry Bridges preaches the Gospel to himself, is he wrong too? I don't think so.

Here's another review of Jerry Bridges' book.

Hope this helps.

Chris Rosebrough

Pastor Bartels,

Sadly, there are MANY self professed Christians who would have a problem with the claims made by Piper in the clip (especially the part about always needing to hear the gospel).

Here's an example from Seeker-Driven leader/blogger named Adam McLane. In a blog post about churche Easter strategies he wrote:

- Make the Easter service and the events leading up to it about Jesus.

- Instead of the whole thing leading up to a Gospel presentation (Built on the false assumption that visitors aren’t believers in the resurrection… I mean, why would they be there?) why not make the service a kick-off in how you can get involved in living out the message of Jesus in your community?

So I asked Adam a simple question:

Adam, Don’t Christian Believers need to hear The Gospel too?

His Answer:

Chris- not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate? I’m of the opinion that people who already know and have accepted the Gospel know it because they have accepted it. They need to be taught how to and implored to live it.

The need for Christians to hear the gospel is NOT even on this guys radar and he's not alone. Many of the thought leaders in the seeker-driven movement are also this clueless when it comes to the Gospel.

Here's the link to Adam's blog post

Brian of the Hill People

I think it's logical that if Paul warned against people preaching a different Gospel than he preached, gospel preaching must have occurred within a church more than once, no? (Gal 1:6-9)

Paul told the Corinthians that God sent him not to baptize but to preach the Gospel. He says it's foolishness to the perishing but the power of God to those of us being saved. Do believers not continually need the power of God? (1 Cor 1:17-18)

If Paul chose to know nothing among them but Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Cor 2:2), wouldn't that be strictly Gospel?

Paul mentions that those who preach the Gospel should get their living by the Gospel. (1 Cor 9:12) Sounds like an awful lot of Gospel goin' on.

Paul states it's the Gospel in which we stand (contnuous action) (1 Cor 15:1). Sounds like it still has relevence, even for the born again. Also note, Paul claims he and the other apostles preach (continuous action) the gospel (1 Cor 15:11). Seeing as how the apostles were not a totally new area daily, the preaching of the Gospel must have fallen on believing ears more than once, no?

(2 Cor 8:18) Paul is sending a brother famous among the churches for his preaching of the Gospel. Sounds like the Corinthians are going to get more Gospel, doesn't it?

There are tons of scripture indicating the preaching of the Gospel. To preach Christ is to preach the Gospel. He is not truly the Christ without it for it confirms Who He is. In Phillipians, Paul mentions others preaching Christ (the gospel). I mean, it's everywhere.

It is interesting to note, we have few actual sermons of any of the apostles (such as in Acts) but rather letters to churches, often addressing specific issues. Does this mean they were not preaching Christ when they visited?

So, while I do not instantly recall a specific verse explicitly stating Paul returned to such and such church and preahced the Gospel, by all the preponderence of evidence of his own letters as well as those of the other apostles, they and others were always preaching the Gospel.

Can anyone really make an argument against that without making the apostles liars by their own writings?

Ben Mordecai

Amen to Dr. Piper!

J. K. Jones

I quickly am overtaken by despare if I fail to remind myself in some way each day of the gospel of what Christ has done for me.

Maybe I read a book on it, or hear a sermon or lecture on it, maybe I read a relevant Bible passage, maybe I think about it, maybe I discuss it with another Christian, maybe I witness to someone and share its message.

But in some way I must remind myself.

My bsins are too easy for me to see. Christ's work must be held in my mind.

adam mclane

Chris- I'm intrigued that you would come to my blog, leave a random comment and then re-post it here in a fashion of "I told Adam McLane" this when in fact you never replied to my response to you. I'm happy to carry on a dialog with you.

As far as the labels you've placed on me... well, I find them interesting to say the least. Clearly you don't know me.

Ray

Adam,

"...in fact you never replied to my response to you."

You might want to check your blog comments again.

-Ray

Sister Cin

I was saved in a church that had 3000 members. I was baptized the next Sunday and they mixed up my membership with somebody else and was asked to teach 4th grade Sunday School the next week. Needless to say, I didn't.

We moved out of that state and the Baptist church we joined asked me if I was a believer and I confirmed. From that day on it was as if they said, "Good, you have heard the gospel and responded. Now we will set this aside and never speak of it again and get to work on your Christian walk." From that day on it was nothing but frustration trying to read the Scriptures and understanding that Christ is our Sabbath, but yet I am working so VERY HARD for something I am not to boast about!

Then God really opened my eyes to the gospel and to that I cling! Praise be to Him!

Gary Matthews

Check out Piper's preaching on Romans 1:15ff. Paul is talking to Christians - and wants to preach the Gospel to them. Dr. Piper then explains why - and what it means for us today, too.

adam mclane

Ray- I should clarify. Chris came to my blog and started a dialog... then came here and posted "Sadly, there are MANY self professed Christians" and then proceeded to put words in my mouth I didn't say.

He never answered the questions I asked him in relation to his unorthodox presumption. http://adammclane.com/2009/04/09/easter-strategery/#comment-5279

He implies that I would disagree with John Piper's video above, I've made no comment on the video. Also, his statement seems to imply that I'm not really a Christian. Should I not take such slanderous remarks seriously? Typically, I could care less what people say about me... but it was so blatantly false that it needed to be addressed.

So, I just would like readers here to recognize that I've never met nor talked to Mr. Rosebrough. If he'd like to man up and speak to me directly he can contact me directly and not slander me on a third party blog. Or perhaps people of your persuasion think gossip and slander are acceptable.

Ray

Adam,

"...then proceeded to put words in my mouth I didn't say."

It's possible. He's still prone to sin as he himself would agree, as am I (our very reason for needing the Gospel repeatedly). If you believe this is true, then state your case.

"He never answered the questions I asked him in relation to his unorthodox presumption."

True and Not So Fast. True: He has yet to respond to your second response. Not So Fast: Sir, you are in for a battle if you are claiming the views he stated to be "unorthodox." If you truly believe this to be so, state your case.

" Also, his statement seems to imply that I'm not really a Christian. Should I not take such slanderous remarks seriously?"

If they were truly "slanderous," yes. As of yet you only have said they "seem to imply" and to act as otherwise would be to overstep what you know. If you believe them to be slanderous, state your case.

"...but it was so blatantly false that it needed to be addressed."

I wouldn't hold that against you in the slightest. In fact, the only reason I said anything was that I saw your comment after I had just read your blog post and the comments and remembered that Chris had in fact responded at one point. I was addressing something that, on the surface at least, was blatantly false.

"...third party blog."

Actually, unless I'm very much mistaken, this is his blog; so it's not third party.

"Or perhaps people of your persuasion think gossip and slander are acceptable."

Really, Adam? Really? People of "our persuasion"? Really?! Really?!?! Oh, dude!! Up until this point I didn't really have anything to say against your comments per se. You brought up some points that could have been addressed in calm, orderly, loving manner. And then you went for the low-blow, cheap shot. Ouch! So close!

-Ray

Chris Rosebrough

Adam,

You didn't even watch the video link that I sent you. How do I know? The video is NOT of John Piper. You may want to watch it.

As for me slandering you. This is a silly charge. The ONLY thing I did was post the contents of our exchange.

Did you or did you not tell your blog readers regarding their Easter Strategies:

"Instead of the whole thing leading up to a Gospel presentation (Built on the false assumption that visitors aren’t believers in the resurrection… I mean, why would they be there?) why not make the service a kick-off in how you can get involved in living out the message of Jesus in your community?

Did you or did you not tell me on your blog that:

"I’m of the opinion that people who already know and have accepted the Gospel know it because they have accepted it. They need to be taught how to and implored to live it."

Last time I checked your blog that is EXACTLY what you said and those are your EXACT words.

What was so slanderous of me taking your PUBLICALLY stated opinions and relaying them in another conversation that I was having on MY OWN blog?

Do you wish to retract your statements? Have you changed your mind? Do you now think that Christians also need to hear the gospel?

Maybe the real reason you're upset is because you realize that the statements you made on your blog are wrong and you're now embarrassed by them.

adam mclane

Chris- I'm not embarrassed of my statements, nor am I retracting them. I'm embarrassed that you think it's OK to call me names.

You show your extreme ignorance by calling me, "self professed Christians" and "Seeker-Driven leader/blogger."

Go ahead, try to distract by calling me more names, I can handle it.

You can say what you like on your own blog just like I can. But there are lines not to be crossed. There's no reason to insult.

Have I insulted you somehow? Why are you perpetrating lies and labels about me?

Larry KY

Dr. Piper is spot on the mark there. Suffering, whether it be actual threat of physical death or that internal "am I saved or elect" temptation that Satan drives you too; THAT suffering, the second death to which the first death (of the body) kills ALL pretense of good works and self reliance. And Dr. Piper is right, nothing will stand in that moment. I think this is the blessedness of suffering that Paul speaks of, not suffering as if pain is in and of itself meritorious or good, but its utter depleting nature of all the strength of the old Adam. And in that moment, the Gospel is indeed the sweet power of God. It is as Luther waxes so elogantly about the very gates of heaven opening up to him (his tower experience). Dr. Piper is right, no single day goes by that one does not need the Gospel. It's unfortunate that he cannot direct his flock to use baptism, Gospel, in that case. Which is a sweet Gospel and answer to all the terrors of the devil, flesh and the world that would say, "hath God really said to you...Christ alone for you?" Whether he realized it or not, especially at the beginning he was giving absolution. The Gospel at the end of the day is absolution, "your sins are forgiven you".

I don't think we can bifurcate preach it to ourselves versus having it preached to us. On one hand, we should never so think we can preach it to ourselves that the church officially relaxes and moves on to other sermons that are not giving Christ, that is the Gospel. Because there's nothing that can replace hearing the Gospel from another, particularly the pastor. NOTHING replaces absolution which is nothing more than the Gospel.

On the other hand returning daily to baptism, Gospel, the "for me" is just as important because one has to go out into the world and perform their vocation. You can't stay locked up in the church building.

So both are important.

I love what he said at the beginning especially, it CANNOT be said enough, "You never...never out grow your need for the Gospel...".


Larry

JAS

I absolutely agree with Piper on this one. I have the same video on my BLOG.

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