« Seeker Driven Sermon Topics are a Hindrance to the Gospel | Main | In Matters Concerning God... »

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00e54eea6129883301157215f023970b

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference How Could a “Christian” Church Body Vote to Approve of Homosexual Clergy? :

Comments

Paul L.

The Episcopal Church, like most mainline denominations, does not view revelation as God breaking into our world in time and space with his Divine Word. Rather, they see revelation as an ongoing dialog--either between God and man (excuse me, "people" gotta be inclusive) or among human beings--about what God would want or should want. Therefore the Bible to them is a record of how certain peoples in a particular times and places envisioned God. Although we should take the Bible into consideration, we are free to "grow" and "progress" and come to our own conclusions as to what God really wants.

That view of revelation has always struck me as being close to worthless (even when I was an agnostic).

Steve Newell

The Roman Church is also subject to "on going revelation". Many of their teachings on the Pope, Purgatory, etc are not based on Scripture. Likewise, many of those in the Charismatic movement also believe in this with wanting to "re-establish" apostles in the Church.

Many times, those how claim that "God is doing a new thing" will point to something that runs counter to Scripture. If their are correct, then it makes God either to look like a liar at worst and double minded as best.

Michael J. Bridge

As an Orthodox and extremely conservative Episcopal priest (I refer to myself as a missionary to the Episcopal Church), I want to make two points.

First, the Episcopal Church, as a whole, is no longer a Christian body. They have embraced liberalism in place of gospel truth. But, it is worth noting that much of what is going on in the homosexual movement in the church didn't start in the Episcopal Church. If you were to attend the General Convention that happens every 3 years (as I did 3 years ago as a delegate), you would see that all of these delegates are new Episcopalians who came to this church because they found it to be a church that would allow their agenda. There are all these lesbian priests who have only been in the ministry a few years, and only been Episcopalians that long, who are using this church as a tool because this church is willing to be used that way. It is a shame, and it has led to the inevitable death of the Episcopal Church. Those of us who are still gospel believers have just had to align ourselves with the orthodoxy of the Anglican Church.

Second point, virtually every mainline denomination is going through this... and arguably the Episcopalians aren't the worst. Lutherans, Presbyterians, and especially Methodists have all bought into this liberal heresy. While the Episcopal Church was voting on gay bishops 3 years ago, the Presbyterian Church (USA) was voting on renaming the trinity. But the Episcopal Church gets all the blame as though they are the only ones dealing with this. Just stay away from those crazy Episcopalians and you will be fine...

I get tired of it. I read this site regularly, and I think you are dead on with most things. But your pronouncement on the Episcopal Church (while accurate) really paints it as though the rest of Christianity in this country is just fine. And that isn't the case.

We have a major problem in Christianity in the West. Europe is all but lost and Canada isn't far off from that. Here in America, mainline churches are dropping like flies to the sweet calls of liberalism. We need to spend less time telling people how bad the Episcopal Church is (as opposed to all the others doing the same crazy stuff) and wake America up from this lazy and comfortable pseudo-Christianity that is being pawned off on people of all denominations. American Christianity has grown lifeless and cold. We can't offend people with truth. We want to be inclusive and tolerant (of course meaning that everyone is ok no matter what they are doing; as opposed to everyone is able to be forgiven despite what they have done).

In my town, the alternative has been several Pentecostal churches who are (and I am not speaking for all Pentecostal churches, just the ones in my town) either all prosperity theology or are teaching that if you still sin, you aren't saved. So that creates its own problem. It leaves few churches left as safe-havens for believers.

Sites like this are a key part in getting the real gospel message out there... you know, the one actually in the bible. But we need people in the ministry across all denominations standing up for the gospel and not tolerating the encroachment of liberalism. You can't just say, "Stop going to the Episcopal Church," because you have to add several others to the list as well. And even then, some churches are good and others bad. I don't know what the future holds for Christianity in America, but those of us who are believers need to lift our voices and make sure the gospel message is heard.

Frank Gant

The Episcopal denomination is not the only group of so-called Christians to stray from God's Word, how many denominations allow women to preach and teach and be leaders over men? This is just as wrong as allowing homosexuals to be leaders but you don't hear many people calling this out.

It's all signs of the times, Jesus is returning soon!

Steve

Michael,
I agree with your comments. You are right. Many people have used the the problems with the Episcopal church as an excuse to wrap themselves up in their own self-righteousness. But as an ELCA pastor, I can tell you we're starting to get more attention ourselves; and not in a good way. One good thing of this is that, because I am daily considering options outside of the ELCA, I have forced myself to take a harder look at some of the positions that other Lutheran bodies have. As such I have come to understand and even agree with the LCMS position on women's ordination and to a certain extent closed communion.

However, while I have many colleagues and friends in the LCMS whom I repect greatly, I get frustrated with some LCMS folks who will just have this attitude of "Why don't you just leave??" As if it's that easy. Not to mention their own church-body is far from perfect.

But you are right. The challenges that Christianity is facing in the post-modern, secularist, pluralist culture we live in extend way beyond the problems in the episcopal church, the ELCA or even mainline churches altogether. And sitting around and simply condemning other church-bodies does nothing.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

October 2010

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            

A Little Leaven

Support This Site

Follow Me on Twitter

  • Twitter

Twitter Updates

    follow me on Twitter