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blastum.myopenid.com

For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

Horrors.

Scott Autry

Wow, you just described my former church with a freaky accuracy as if you had sat right beside me through the 4 years of junk I did.

Spot on analysis.

Drew

It's possible to be a Christ follower without trusting in Jesus alone for salvation. "Christ follower" and "saved individual" are not the same. All that stuff you listed in the definition of Christ follower was actually pretty good. It's only bad if you rely on it for salvation.

Lane Chaplin

Wonderful summation, Chris.

Kim M.

I've been seeing women on the 'net refer to themselves as "Jesus lovin'". I keep wondering what that means. I'm thinking it may be another version of "Christ follower". Do I love Jesus? Of course, for the sacrifice he made and the forgiveness of my sins, allowing me to wear his righteousness as my own. This "Jesus lovin'" talk sounds trite to me. I'm not seeing the substance with it.

Paula

Christ Follower: Someone who has made the decision to be an emotionally well adjusted self-actualized...blah blah blah blah blah... tithes off the gross and has taken at least one humanitarian aid trip to a third world nation.

In other words, someone who's perfect.

Paul Golder

It seems that one of the reasons the purpose-driven church teaches these things is in order to set their members "apart" from the world.

When if they would only hold true to the Word of God, and teach sound doctrine, the Holy Spirit would do all the changing from the inside, where it matters to God.

It is indeed sad when they strive, and strive to try and accomplish what Christ has already finished on the cross...

kj

To clarify: You listened to 2 years worth of sermons from all these churches and NEVER once heard a message that included repentance of sins for salvation (or a similar version of that...)?

judy

Would you be speaking of South Hills Bible Chapel in McMurray, PA? I was wondering if you have contacted this church and expressed your concerns? We attend the South Hills in McMurray and have had a couple of excellent discussions with staff members about the EMC and to understand their mission and doctrine statements.

They are currently in the process of taking a formal position on Rob Bell's 'theology'. They will not permit the use any of his materials. They have similar positions/standards for other EMC leaders.

I am very interested in your response. Thank you.

JB

Could you not find many of the same problems with the title "Christian" as you do "Christ Follower"

Jon

This question comes to mind when I read your argument: What if you miss things when you are listening to other people? If you are skipping around you can miss things that you are claiming they are missing.

Paul

From the Saddleback Church statement of faith: "[O]nly by trusting in Jesus Christ as God’s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin’s penalty."

Paul

"Apart from Jesus Christ, all people are spiritually lost and, because of sin, deserve the judgment of God. However, God gives salvation and eternal life to anyone who trusts in Jesus Christ and in His sacrifice on his or her behalf. Salvation cannot be earned through personal goodness or human effort. It is a gift that must be received by humble repentance and faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross." -- From the Willow Creek Association's statement of faith

Paul Vander Klay

You have really tagged that implicit movement's image of maturity, and as you describe it isn't necessarily a Christian image. This could provide the basis for a good conversation on exactly what the gospel offers. It should also be noted, however, that offering an image of a preferred way of living in the world is also pretty explicitly and contextually offered in OT wisdom literature. Job is clearly portrayed as the prototypical God fearing man very much along the lines of the target the book of Proverbs shoots for. Having such a contextual imagine isn't necessarily a bad thing and offering this image to chaotic wandering people can be a helpful thing. You are right, however, that although this may be a helpful thing the church can do, along with helping people get out of debt and become better spouses, is this really what Christian proclamation is intended to offer. Good post. Thanks. pvk

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