Extreme Theology

If I was Dying & I Walked Into Your Church

Poignant.

2008 Year End Review of the Sad State of American Christianity

In this edition of the Fighting for the Faith radio program I take a look the highlights (maybe they should be called low lights) of the sad state of the apostate Christian church in America. This is a sobering look at Christianity in America and at the end of the program I offer us the one and only solution that can turn things around. Please take the time to listen and share this important program.

The Secular Media Gets It

Ed Young's fifteen minutes of fame is just about over. What is he famous for? Answer: a 7 Day Sex Challenge (aka seeker-sensitive marketing stunt).

In this interview with CNN, Ed Young gets raked over the coals (as he should be).

Notice the toilet on his church's stage.

Live Blogging: Reveal Conference @ Willow Creek Day One

Today and tomorrow I am attending Willow Creek's Reveal Conference. Unlike other bloggers in attendance I will be providing critical analysis of the information presented at this conference.

1. First impressions of Willow Creek - One word, ostentatious. This place is HUGE. The stage set up, equipment, and high def screens match and exceed the equipment used in the top rock and roll stage shows in the world.

2. Worship - I am so done with rock and roll praise bands and their vacuous repetitious 7/11 'praise songs'. Rather than stand and pretend to be 'worshiping' with the rest of the conference attendees I am sitting and working. The looks I am getting are fun. One guy shot a look at me as if I were a pagan and I was being sacrilegious. There is the irony. I think they are being sacrilegious.

3. The praise leader just read a verse from the book of Revelation and then said, "I FEEL like God is calling us to return to him." It drives me absolutely crazy when someone reads a passage of scripture then re-directs us to whatever he 'feels' God is speaking to his heart. Since when did peoples' feelings supersede God's Word? That was sappy and manipulative and wrong.

4. Greg Hawkins has just taken the stage.

We were all given an interactive key pads that allow us answer instant questions / surveys. I just participated in my first 3 Willow Creek surveys.

Reveal now works off the basic premise that goal is to help move people who are far from God to become a disciple of God.

Hawkins defines a disciple as one who 'Loves God and Loves People'. (defines it based upon the law).

Church activities are supposed to create participation that will produce disciples.

Hawkins claims that the activity model doesn't work. Activity doesn't predict discipleship.

Hawkins claims that intimacy not activity is what produces disciples.

Side Note - I haven't seen a single cross on Willow Creek's property.

5. Bill Hybels has now taken the stage to discuss the changes at Willow Creek.

Hybels is warning that this conference with challenge people and 'mess with peoples' heads' and that it will hurt some people. He claimed that most people attend conferences that will affirm what they are already doing. Hybels says that this conference will challenge the way many attendees are doing church.

Hybels is warning everyone that leaders of the church are going to have to give an accounting to God for how they led their churches.

Wow. Hybels confessed that he has messed up. Candid confession that he has pioneered ministry methods that don't work.

Hybels just said that in order to move people through the different phases of growth 'takes high engagement with the Bible'.

Hybels confessed that their preaching at Willow did not offer the type of Biblical engagement that Christ-Centered people need.

Hybels is knocking the me centered attitude that many Christians have and claims that the greatest chasm exists between the Close to Christ People and the Christ-Centered People.

This is a humble and contrite Hybels. He is actually making a case against shallow and self-centered Christians.

Yikes, he just made a plug for 'spiritual disciplines'.

Comment - It was refreshing to hear one of the foremost pioneers of Seeker-Sensitive methods repudiating those methods. (These are methods that have driven away mature Christians from the church because of its shallowness and the fact that these methods DO NOT feed God's sheep). It was refreshing to hear Hybels make the case for meeting the needs of mature Christ-Centered Christians. The devil is always in the details so I am curious to hear them.

Break Time

As I wander through the facility during the break it strikes me there are no pastors here wearing clerical collars. They've traded those in for the new uniform which is comprised of a kewl untucked shirt, spiked bleached hair and a pair of Rob Bell glasses.

Strange note - I found one emergent fellow here that considers himself to be a neo-monastic and he is dressed in a monks habit (no kidding).

Worship session 2 - my ears are ringing after the rock version of This Little Light of Mine.

6. Greg Hawkins retakes the stage.

Hawkins says the purpose is to help people catalyze growth. It is all about movement.

Top five thing that catalyzes spiritual growth (according to the research)

1. Reading and reflecting on the the Bible is the most powerful catalyst for personal spiritual growth.

2. Developing core Christian beliefs is crucial for those in the early stages of spiritual growth.

* People must understand the doctrine of the Trinity early on.

3. Personal spiritual practice are the building blocks for a Christ-centered life

4. Serving is the most catalytic experience offered by churches

5. Spiritual community is vital and migrates from organized to organic

What people want from church

1. Help me understand the bible in greater depth 87%

* survey results show that churches accross the country are not doing this well.

2. Help me develop a personal relationship with Christ 86%

3. Provide strong programs fro children 85%

4. Challenge me to grow and take my next steps 83%

5. Provide compelling worship services 80%

Case Study on Discovery Church in Orlando, Florida - Pastor David Loveless

After Reveal they changed their mission statement to say "To strengthen your journey with Christ".

Views church's role as one of a spiritual coach or parent.

Second thing they changed was their Mission Map.

Help people evaluate where they are in their journey: exploring, beginning, growing, centering

Interesting Note - Pastor Loveless is discussing how sin can take you from being Christ-Centered to displaying behavior of an explorer. Sin messes up the continuum.

E3 Effect (this is all about their model of Spiritual Formation)

Evaluate where you are, Embrace the Life of Christ (what Christ has done for us and not about doing or effort), Engage in your next steps (personal growth plan based on church practices, spiritual disciplines and practices, relational practices)

They create quarterly personal spiritual growth plans.

Third thing they changed was the 'mission organization'.

Comment - This feels like a some type of high tech spiritual growth farming techniques.

Comment - this mantra "its all about movement" is bugging me. It smacks of works rather than repentance and faith. This is a high-tech version of a law based sanctification. The problem is that it can create a real false sense of security in your spiritual growth movement survey results.

Comment - This messes with the organic nature of the Body of Christ. Are there really only 4 types of people in church? This may be a new and dangerous form of reductionism.

Lunch Session - Walking Through Reveal Survey Results

They've developed a "Spiritual Vitality Index"

Three parameters

• Personal Spiritual Practices

• Church's Role - like how you're helping them grow

• Faith in Action

Afternoon Session is Beginning. (more loud songs from the praise band. That will jolt anyone out of post-lunch food coma. My ears are ringing again. I should have brought ear plugs.)

Why have these folks dumped the word 'Christian' in favor of 'Christ-Follower'? Something has rattled loose in their doctrine and theology. Based on how they use the term Christ-Follower it doesn't appear that it is a synonym of the word Christian. They are trying to distinguish themselves from Christians.

Greg Hawkins Re-Re-Takes the Stage

Discovering effective church practice.

Reveal Index

• Personal Spritual Practices

• Faith in Action

• Church's Role in an individual's growth

The best churches all have 4 things in common.

1. Get People Moving - destination is disciples.

Get people moving early and create a clear path for next steps.

Early on they offer a plated meal rather than a buffet. Buffet comes later.

2. Embed the Bible in Everything and Everyone. (the bible is taught VERY clearly in an expository way)

Model how to study the Bible and teach people how to feed off of the word of God. Make the Bible accessible in every way possible.

3. Create ownership - we are all part of the body of Christ.

They train people to lead and disciple others and they hold people accountable.

4. Pastor the local community.

Hawkins is bringing up 4 different pastors who, according to Reveal, are doing it right. One of the pastors said that he is a disciple of Dr. Fred Price (prosperity teacher).

Evolve 08 Conference - Part 1

The Role of My Opinion and Voice in the American Church

Before I discuss what I loved and what I disagreed with at the Evolve conference I want to take you through the struggle that exists in my own psyche about the role my opinion and voice has in the American Church.

For better or for worse, a lot of people read this blog and over the years I’ve built a ‘brand’ for myself based upon the things I’ve said and how I’ve said them. This blog began as a theological diary of sorts and a personal catharsis for me. Many times I’ve bluntly shared my anger and frustration at what I and others see as the complete selling out of the message of the gospel in the American Church. My opinions are not only based upon my theological study but they are also informed by my own experiences and the deep feelings that haunt one who has had everything he has believed in be challenged and found wanting.

This leads to an important truth that many of us, myself included, lose site of. Debating theology is practically impossible to do without understanding the people who hold to theological ideas that are contrary to yours. The reason for this is that people are the ones who are promoting these theologies and their hearts and souls and minds are all engaged in the fight.

So many times I would read about what a pastor or a church was doing and would find myself scratching my head in disbelief wondering what that pastor or church was thinking. I could never wrap my brain around the whys of their whats. Because of this I realized that I was missing a critical component and that if I was going to be effective in speaking to the problems the American Church is facing I was going to have to get out from behind the laptop and start having some face time with the men and women I was disagreeing with and get to know them as people.

The role of this blog and my role as a teacher in the church is to preach, teach and defend Christ Crucified for sinners. I cannot do that effectively if the ONLY thing I am doing is lobbing theological hand grenades at those I disagree with while hiding behind a computer screen. So for some time now I’ve been privately reaching out in an effort to build relationships with these men. It is in that spirit that I attended the Evolve 08 conference and it is in that spirit that I want to offer my readers the lessons that I learned, the things that I found praise-worthy and the things that I found very troubling.

New Friends

Before I launch into my analysis I want to let everybody know that I have some new friends and I consider them to be dear brothers in Christ. These are men who trust Christ and Him crucified and who are doing as much as possible with their limited resources to fulfill their callings as pastors. These are men that I had long conversations with and shared meals with. These are humble hard working men who have risked their lives and forsaken earthly fortunes for the toil, suffering and struggles that accompany the role of a church planter. I talked with many of these men but I want to single out and thank three of them. They are Chris Elrod, Dave Anderson and Mark Love. These men are good people and hard working servants of Christ. Gentlemen, thank you. I truly enjoyed your company and appreciated your willingness to spend time with a theological nerd such as myself.

To Be Continued

I Fear for Men Like Hybels and Furtick

Over and again I marvel at how our Lord has not left us without instruction and warning regarding false teachers in the church.

Case in point.

As I have been researching, reading, digesting the current attack against God's sheep by men who have been called to be their shepherds I have also been searching the scriptures in search of a clear word from The Lord to help us in this dire time of trouble in church history. Sadly, I think I've found it and what I've found shakes me to my core and throws me on my knees in fear and prayer.

My friend Jim from Old Truth pointed me to a blog piece written by Steven Furtick regarding those people in the church who are complaining that they are not being fed. This is a growing complaint as more and more pastors abandon expository Bible preaching and replace it with topical sermons designed to meet the felt needs of so-called seekers. Said Furtick in the most un-kind and condescending tone possible:

"Proverbs 26:15


The sluggard buries his hand in the dish;
He is too lazy to bring it back to his mouth.

What a great picture of nominal, noncommittal church attendees!
We all know that one of top 3 reasons people leave churches is the (infamous) claim:
“I wasn’t getting fed there.”
Maybe you weren’t.
Or maybe the church set the table, presented the bread of life, and you were too stinking lazy to bring it back to your mouth, chew it, swallow, and digest it, like a big boy.
You know, I don’t mind helping my 2 year old eat his Easy Mac. 
But if he can’t pick up a fork and bring the food to his mouth by age 20, we have a problem.
Churches are filled with those who have known Christ for decades, and still need a bib, a high chair, and want Daddy to do “open wide, here comes the airplane” tricks with the fork before shoving it into their mouths."

As I have shown in a previous post, don't expect to be fed God's word when you go to Furtick's church. His Church isn't for Christians.

This terrible attitude of disdain and condescension towards feeding God's sheep is also shared by Bill Hybels of Willow Creek. His speech regarding the findings of his people's own survey of the effectiveness of their methods when it comes to making mature disciples of Christ is every bit as ugly as Furtick's. But, Hybels shamefully tries to make it into a joke. Said Hybels to those complaining that they were not being fed and were wanting more meat of the word and more serious minded Bible study:

"I'll feed those people! I'll hire some old seminary prof. I'll feed them til they barf!"

Rather than truly repent and show his repentance through a change in behavior, Hybels' solution regarding those who aren't being fed at his church is NOT to feed them. Instead, he is going to teach them how to be SELF feeders! In other words, rather then obey God's word (read the scripture passages supplied at the end of this post) and feed God's sheep with God's word, "Pastor" Hybels and other "pastors" like him are now going to tell their hungry sheep to go and get their own &*$! food.

The reason I put the word Pastor in quotes above is because the word Pastor is literally a shepherding term that comes to us from the Latin word "pascere" which means "to feed". Therefore, it is a sick irony that has befallen Christ's Church that we are now plagued with "pastors" who refuse to feed Christ's sheep. What are we supposed to call these men? They are NOT feeders! They are withholders. They are NON-Feeders, no worse, they are ANTI-Feeders! Should we not then be referring to these men as NON-Pastors or ANTI-Pastors?

Now, here is where the REALLY terrifying word from The Lord comes in.

In the Epistle of Jude we are admonished to contend for the faith against deceivers who've secretly slipped in among God's people, the Church. Jude gives us a very clear description of what these men would be like so that we can spot them. He also tells us their fate. Said Jude:

Jude 11-13   Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

12   These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — SHEPHERDS WHO FEED ONLY THEMSELVES. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

Jude describes the deceivers he is warning us about as "shepherds who feed only themselves" and warns that blackest darkness has been reserved for these deceivers. This description fits nearly all of the seeker-sensitive preachers and their "sinless", "Repentance-less", "positive spin" gospel of meeting felt needs.

Jude's words should terrify us and spur us to do everything we can to call these men to repentance.

Pray for these men.

Schuller Attacking Expository Bible Teaching

Here is a fine video that gives us a taste of the man-centered message of the Grandfather of the Seeker-Sensitive Movement. Note Schuller's attack on Expository Bible Teaching. Schuller's belief that Expository Bible Teaching is a hinderance to evangelism and must be removed from the church is echoed in the teachings of Rick Warren and Bill Hybels. Both men are disciples of Robert Schuller and his ministry is very happy to be able to share that fact with the world. See this article, this article and this article .

Schuller On Sin and Justification

If you want to truly understand the Seeker-Sensitive movement you cannot just look at men like Rick Warren and Bill Hybels. You have to push farther back and look at the man that inspired them to take the church in the direction that they did. That man is Robert Schuller and his ideas still hold sway over far too many of today's "Christian" leaders. These ideas are not about differences in style. They are truly about differences in doctrine and theology.

15 Years ago this month, Robert Schuller appeared on the White Horse Inn radio program and debated Dr. Michael Horton on the topics of sin and justification. During the debate Schuller became so flustered and angry that he stormed out of the studio in a huff. If you've never heard the content of that debate or seen transcripts of it, then you would be wise to take the time to do so because it will help you see the bigger doctrinal and theological differences that are at the heart of the Seeker-Sensitive movement (Both Hybels and Warren are graduates of Schuller's Church Growth Institute) Here is just one of the eye-opening exchanges between Horton and Schuller.

SCHULLER: We are not justified by faith.
HORTON: No, it is by grace through faith.
SCHULLER: By grace through faith, that's right.
HORTON: But what I'm asking is this. Justified from what? The wrath of God?
SCHULLER: Oh! I'll never use that language.
HORTON: But the Bible does.
SCHULLER: Yes, the Bible does, but the Bible is God's book to believers primarily. Listen, and then call me a heretic if you want to, but I'm interested in attracting people, and not driving them farther away. There is language I can and will use and there are times, if we are wise, there is language we will not use....If God is a God of love, how do we handle this concept of wrath? At the outset, on the surface, it appears to be a contradiction; maybe it is. I tell you this, I have come to the conclusion that I haven't stepped into the center of truth until I've dared to step into contradiction. The Bible is a contradiction: Old Testament--Law, New Testament--Grace. Jesus is a contradiction; totally human and totally God.
HORTON: Of course we would say that that the dual nature of Christ is a mystery but not a contradiction.
SCHULLER: It is a contradiction, but you know what? Contradictions are ultimate points of creativity...

Schuller says that he'll never use the language of justification from the wrath of God. He also completely redefines sin in a way that allows him to 'keep it positive'. Compare what Schuller is saying to the points I made about Biblically necessary components of a true conversion in this article and this article. Based upon Shuller's defiant refusal to discuss sin and its consequences as it pertains to God's wrath and judgement, it is completely appropriate to ask whether or not this approach, regardless of who is employing it is producing true converts to Christianity. We already know that it isn't making disciples.

To read more of the transcript from Shuller's debate with Dr. Michael Horton click here