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David Muller

That is so sad - it's rather a shame this is in the US and not here in Australia where I can do something about it.

I am interested however in why he thinks Heath is in "Hell" NOW and "serving his eternal ..." (I couldn't understand what he said)? I don't know much about him, but does he think Sheol is the place of punishment?


While I can't watch the movie here at work (filters), I do wonder if this group (Westboro Baptist Church) has a god complex. They think they are God. I just glad that the Indiana State Legislature passed a law curtailing protests at funerals. We don't worship our fallen Soldiers here; we just want to bury them without some nut ball yelling at the family in their time of mourning.


This may sound strange to you because I do not subscribe to all the picketing that WBC does but just in essence, the message of what Fred said was TRUTH. God is not mocked and when Brokeback came out in the theatres I had an ominous feeling that AMerica had "crossed d another line"..just like we did with Terri Shiavo. We keep crossing these lines and think America will not reap judgment. We already are. The freak weather tesifies to that.
Anyway....everything that Fred said was true. 28 years of a life lived and Heath's final portrayal will be that of The Joker....(satan himself)...the master deceiver, most crazed lunatic one. I have seen interviews of Heath and it was quite obvious he had opened himself up to demonic oppression. You do not make Brokeback and portray the hideous character Joker in the upcoming Batman film without opening an entry way for satan to destroy you. And he did heath. That was the message of Phelps....sin leads to death....Phelps does not offer the GRACE that comes from Christ...only the LAW.....yet, the LAW and words that Fred said were, in actuality, truth. And Heath's life , SADLY , shows where following lucifer leads to. If Fred Phelps would speak of GRACE...that EVEN NOW....in our wretched sinfulness Christ can save us and deliver us and set us FREE. But Phelps never gives that message. SO he is seen as a hate monger and fanatical freak. I do not agree with his ways. But the message is clear. REPENT AMERICA. If one Hollywood star can get the message if would save another future tragedy....(Britney is just waiting to be next in line)


I have deep reservations about pointing to all the news happenings in the nation/world and claiming that God is punishing or chastening us especially to make a moral point. People like this have a view that a national commitment to biblical morality (as if God has cut a covenant with the United States) will save us. It won’t.
I am still trying to understand according to the words of Fred Phelps the connection between Christen soldiers come home in body bags from Iraq and God punishing them and our country for the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” policy in the Military.


1 Timothy 4:16 (New International Version)
16Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Matthew 22:37-39 (New International Version)
37Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.”

1 Corinthians 13:4-13 (New International Version)
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

It is time for us Christians to go back to the scriptures and remind
ourselves that God calls us to HATE the SIN but LOVE (defined above) the SINNER. Whether or not Heath was saved or not does not give us the freedom to condemn his life or cause harm/distress to his family. Fred Phelps is heaping coals upon himself and leading our Lord's flock to hell and deserves what he will get. However, this heretic is also making the example of those of us trying to live out Christ's purpose harder, so let us also PRAY that God will bring himself glory through this time.


Wasn't it the Bible that condoned the stoning of homosexuals? Compared to the OT god, Fred Phelps sounds pretty tame to me.

Heidi Sue

Kinda missing the point here, guys...

Mister Phelps got the first part fairly well, but a bit narrowly. See, the thing is ALL have sinned and fallen short. That includes Heath, our buddy Freddy, Grandma Schulz the gossip, and the itty-bitty baby cryin' to get some attention for themselves. As far as going to hell goes, we've all got a ticket to ride!

I think Chris' point is that Phelps is proclaiming only half of the story. (Thank God the Spirit kept Paul writing after Romans 3.23!) Yep, the Bible condoned stoning homosexuals (not to mention anyone else doing any sort of sexual immorality). Yep, no one could approach the Holy of Holies without getting fried. Yep, we had to ritualisticly slaughter animals. Better believe that God is a God of wrath, but it's a righteous wrath that is simply part of Him being a just God. We get what we deserve. We deserve death and hell along with Heath, Freddy, Grandma Schulz and the itty-bitty baby.

BUT that's not the whole story. Just as all have sinned and fall short, all have been justified by God's grace through Christ Jesus who is received by faith. (Another of God's gifts! Yay! I love gifts!)

We can't judge Heath's faith--that's God's job. And the issue really isn't a matter of Christian love versus the truth of the law. It's a matter of telling the whole story, Law AND Gospel.

As for the present situation, it's relatively useless to try and condemn or hagiasthetize Heath. We can only try to comfort his family and friends in their loss, whether they're Christian or not (I have no idea whatsoever). THAT'S where the Christian love comes in. THAT'S where we follow Christ's command (and, incidentally, the command of Yahweh, that "evil" OT God as well) to love our neighbors as ourselves.


It seems the general concensus of Heath Ledger's family and friends was that, he was struggling and had a good heart. As it's been stated in previous comments already, we don't know Heath's relationship with God. If we listen to what those that were closest to him have said, we have reason to hope that he gained salvation before his death. As far as stoning goes, Jesus took care of that. Even hardliners in His time couldn't stone the woman when Jesus challenged them. No one with a stone in their hand was without sin. No one is without sin, all rocks should be put down. The time of our duty to warn Heath Ledger passed with his death. Even when he was alive, gave no license to throw rocks. Reaching someone has nothing to do with condeming their soul. We don't have the power (thankfully) to do so. We can warn and be supportive at the same time. example.:" I love you so much, I'll risk our relationship to tell you the truth." I have done that and lost and regained friendships. Some things I cannot be a party to and the hardest thing is to let that person know. I can only hope Heath's struggles were in his faith, that God reached him somehow. Perhaps with the firm conviction of a christian that loved Heath enough to make the biggest difference in anyone's life anyone can. By being good examples to one another.


Thankfully, the Christian god is a myth and a delusion.

Nietzsche once said 'God is dead'. Not often quoted is the whole statement: 'God is dead. We have killed him with our science.'


He declared that "everything about Heath is irrelevant and inconsequential." I would dare this man to look into the eyes of Matilda, Heath's precious daughter and tell her that she, being born of Heath's flesh is irrelevant and inconsequential."

This man is far more than a clanging cymbal, he is hate personified and my heart aches for his misrepresentation of our Lord, though I am comforted as I remember that our Lord knows better than I what is happening here.

I also suggest that no one knows what Heath's last moments were like. We have no idea whether he might have cried out to our Abba Father as his last breaths were breathed. We don't know, therefore we cannot declare one way or the other where Heath might be at this very moment.

I feel ill right now after watching this, but that is clearly a call for prayer, which is the only thing I can do, so I will. ---This was terribly sad.


Evolved, Please don't take this the wrong way. I honestly am interested in your answer, because I'm a bit confused as to why, if you are that certain there is no God, you would want to comment on a christian website. Do you have that bit of doubt and are looking for some "proof" that will convince you? Or is it less deep, that you want to try and shake people's faith? If it is the latter, you really are falling on deaf ears here, no one's faith would even quiver. Nothing can get between God and His believers. If your looking for good insight, then I'd bet Chris or Steve Newell could help you much. It will still come down to you and God. I'm hoping the best for you, that you will gain the faith and trust in God, that we have.


Phelps is a moron and a hate-monger.


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