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Andrew

His comments, demeanor, and refusal to say a single biblically true thing aren't surprising to me at all... What IS shocking is that there are still people who know the true gospel of Jesus Christ that still subscribe to this heretic's growth principles, teaching style, and worst of all - his tyrannical and improper attempts to silence and ostracize any who oppose him, no matter how biblical their arguments might be. He even encouraged pastors to remove dissenters from their local churches, in favor of "unity." Unity over truth - great idea.

People of God, please pray for those sucked into all the Purpose-Drivel. While they draw breath, there is still a hope that by God's grace they will see this guy for the demon he really is and return to the "Old Ways." There's even hope while Mr. Warren lives that he will be granted repentance - in our quickness to defend the Truth, let's not be too quick to forget what WE were when God found us. In other words, there aren't "Good Guys" and "Bad Guys." In the biblical worldview, everyone is bad - except Jesus. Pray for Warren, and for all who are woefully lost. Yes, they are wrong (and in many cases under the anathema for following a false "god," preaching a false "christ," and likewise preaching a false gospel), but we must not cease to preach the Truth to all - you never know who God has appointed unto life, no matter how wicked they may be now. I was HORRIBLE before Jesus saved me! I'm just glad that someone still took the time to share the gospel with me...

Now, how can we grow the church? Try the same way it has always grown - preach the word, lawfully distribute the sacraments, and exercise proper church discipline. Pastors and Elders, below are some additional ways to make sure your people don't get sucked into the prevailing vapidity of contemporary Evangelicalism...

Teach your people good, sound hermeneutics and show them how to get historical background for the books of the Bible they're reading. Make sure that your Sabbath School (or Sunday school, or whatever you want to call it) has a serious adult curriculum as well as a good child-oriented program. Our need to learn more about our God, His Scriptures, and ourselves in relation to them NEVER abates as we grow - how can you expect us to raise our children in the fear and admonition of the Lord if you won't help us be educated ourselves?

I beg you - train your laity in how to rightly divide Scripture, knowing Law from Gospel - or, if you're Reformed like I am, also teach them a basic overview of Covenant Theology. They need to understand how Christ can be their righteousness, and how He bore the sins of God's people on the cross. What does Paul mean by calling Christ the "last Adam?" How can God be both the Just, and the Justifier of him who has faith in Christ Jesus? Is God unjust in granting mercy to His elect, etc. Teaching your flock the deep theology behind their simple gospel call will foster devotion to Christ, as well as supercharge their individual preaching of the gospel - by both making their presentation of it as correct as possible, and also by making cross-related apologetics that much easier and powerful. I can't tell you how many people's idea of Christianity in general, and the Atonement in particular, is completely ridiculous. No wonder unregenerate people don't give Christianity much thought - to them, we say a "magic prayer" and then live however we want, being guaranteed a free-ride to heaven - regardless of how wicked and sinful we are. Teach your people how to deflate those common notions!

Teach the people under your care how to properly use the Law in evangelism, and show them how to then lovingly share the REAL gospel with those they encounter - in a winsome, engaging way. There's only ONE gospel, and most people in the church just don't know how to wield it.

Please also teach your flock basic apologetics - to answer common objections and stop people from intellectualizing their way out of being condemned by the Law a transgressor. You want to have them be able to shut down all other escape routes except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ - this isn't evangelism, but it inevitably follows it.

Teachers, please teach at least an introductory class in Logic. Nobody gets that anymore in school, and since Christianity is the ONLY consistent worldview, it behooves us to train our people how to prick holes in the arguments and worldviews of the unsaved. Most people argue in defiance to the laws of logic, and oftentimes we let them get away with it, when instead we could use their poor reasoning to show them both the fallacy of their thinking, and the truth of Christianity.

Get small-groups started in your church - train some who you know to have leadership gifts, and are sound in life and doctrine, to lead groups of 5-10 people from the church in a weekly time of Bible study, prayer, fellowship, and accountability. Be intentionally cross-generational and cross-cultural when you arrange the small-groups, so the younger can learn from the venerable (not in the Catholic sense) elderly in the congregation. They have much experience in Godliness and wisdom to share with those who will listen and have a teachable spirit. Have a group of Elders in oversight over the entire small-group ministry - to make sure people are learning and growing in love for both Christ, and one another.

I've said much, I know. As a layman (Lord-willing) headed for Seminary in the next few years to (eventually) be ordained for gospel ministry, these are the weak points I have seen time and time again, and in several different denominations. Address the weaknesses, but please don't stop using the ordinary means of grace that God has left the Bride of Christ - Word and Sacrament! Contextualization is fine - innovation, however, is just so much false fire.

~Andrew

PS: I don't need 10,000 people in my church to validate my faith! Some of the most faithful and spiritually alive churches in the world are likely meeting in a horrid leaky shack in a jungle somewhere - themselves being the result of faithful men who travelled thousands of miles to share the gospel with people who desperately needed to hear it...

Ken

Colbert has many years of formal Catholic education. He seemed to have a tough time staying in character listening to Warren. I got the impression he was struck by Warren's lack of "awareness" of the gospel.

Glen

I find it amazing that preachers will go on these secular news shows (or in this case) comedy and then say nothing about the Gospel---even denying it when asked pointed questions by the secular host. Both Warren and Joel Olsteen have done this recently. Very sad indeed

Evolved

Too bad that there is no evidence for god.

*snicker*

Too stupid to understand evolution? Try creationism!

Jordan

Evolved:

If you would be so kind, would you answer two questions for me (after this one)?

First, how do you account for your use of logic in a world where (from your perspective) logic has no basis for existence?

Second, can you give a detailed description of how the cell evolved, considering how most of the parts are required for basic function? By detailed, I don't mean "well, natural selection chose this. . . " but rather, "amino acid met was added here and averted cell destruction because. . ."

lc

Jordan, Yes, science observes and manipulates the world around us. We can fly into space, see our cells and cause nuclear reactions. Science cannot create the space we fly in nor create the matter our cells are made of nor create the elements needed to cause a nuclear reaction. Do you believe that because we can observe and manipulate, that it somehow negates the existence of God? If anything, science is the proof of God's existence that self willed mankind blinds itself from. Mankind doesn't want to believe in a higher power than itself. And willfully denies it's own findings. The universe is too ordered, to be without design. And God gave us the answers to that design, if you will only read it. I hope you will, with a new perspective. One based on common sense and logic. Without a bias against God's existence, logic would be a progression leading to creationism. I'm praying you are being called by God. And believe you might be, considering you took the time to ask/challenge two such questions. I hope you find the truth in Christ Jesus. And are not led astray by false teachers that teach a different gospel.

lc

Sorry Jordan, I meant that for Evolved. Your questions were the answers I built on.

Jordan

No problem.

Fred

Chris,

I have been following what is going on at PP and appreciate you and your website. Abanes is quite the
spin doctor and his responses remind me of James Carville, if you know what I mean. I have researched
Purpose Driven and Willow Creek on my own and have come to the same conclusions as you. I also
know a couple of people who have had personal experience in their churches and have left. All you need to do is google "purpose driven life dissenters" and see what you come up with. Many testimonies of
what happens to dissenters - they get compared to Sanballet and worse. The groupthink and trying
to get everyone on board is what bothers me. I attend an Independent Baptist Church that sings out of the Hymnal and uses the KJV and we will never be "Purpose Driven." God bless you and don't
get discouraged. It looks like there are some pretty good Lutherans out there. :mrgreen:

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