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Zero comments in 2 days. Maybe you should find something else to criticize.

Chris Rosebrough

Maybe you could instead tell us what you thought of the content of this interview.

Was Ken Jones right or wrong, why or why not?


5 days and counting.....


I listen to this through the Issues etc. podcast and listen to the White Horse in podcast. Ken Jones is spot on.
thank you for taking a bold stand for our Lord

Edward Guerrero

I thought Ken Jones was right on the money. The problem that he and Todd Wilken are discussing is THE greatest problem that the church is facing today and Rick Warren and Bill Hybels are personally responsible for bringing this plague on the Christian church.

Catransplant, why don't you tell us what you thought rather than just being a snotty blog lurker.

Akira Kurosawa

So Eddie, how are Rick Warren and Bill Hybels responsible? Catransplant goes to Warren's church, I think, and he hears Christ every week. He hears the Gospel every week. However, you and Chris don't believe him.

So once again the same tired arguments, that have been discussed again and again are trotted out. Warren preaches the gospel, Warren doesn't preach the gospel. Warren preaches Christ, Warren doesn't preach Christ. etc.

Wanna know what the the greatest problem the church is facing? The fact that pastors are leaving the ministry in droves because of stress, burn out and the way people like you and Chris and your buddies attack them for every word that you feel is used incorrectly. YOU all are the ones who ADD to the message of Christ YOUR beliefs and theology that everyone has to follow or they are not GOOD Christians. NOT Warren.

I'd tell you all to go find something worthwhile to spend your time on, but I think Chris has been in the "character assassination" business for so long now, I don't think he rememebers how to do anything else.

And if you don't believe me, look at how long it's been since Chris has written anything but a hatchet piece on someone whose ministry he disagrees with...

This used to be a worthwhile site, now it's just a sad reflection of the hate blogs that Chris writes for and links to...



You seem to be one of the only voices of sanity and reason weighing in on this blog. I have rarely heard you use such strong language so I know you are about as fed up as I am with the "tired arguments" and hatchet pieces. Obviously others are, too, since comments are way down on both this site and on A Little Leaven. Maybe those people are out ministering and making a difference in the world, telling people about Jesus instead of infecting them with a rhetoric of hate. You called it like it is and you are on target.

God's watching you, Chris. I doubt He is pleased with your incessant attempts to tear down the very pastors He is blessing. Time to stop the hate and find better things to spend your time on. It's getting you nowhere.


catransplant said:

"Obviously others are, too, since comments are way down on both this site and on A Little Leaven."

Please. Commenting on, posting to, or the otherwise patronizing of websites is just like the cooling and warming of the planet - cyclical. The number of comments doesn't determine the truth or falsehood of the arguments presented, just as church attendance doesn't determine whether or not the truth is present in the teaching and preaching. Events in our lives determine how much time we can spend on the internet or what time is available can only be spent in reading, not commenting. Perhaps with the economic downturn more people are having to spend more time looking for work? Perhaps, in the case of pastors, they have to spend more time feeding their flocks in these hard times? It's also possible, and indeed likely, that a fair percentage, especially of those not in agreement with the views presented here, have moved on. As a guest on an Issues, Etc. show said recently, "I like to tell my students that many people today have the attention spans of hummingbirds on coccaine." People flit about on the Internet. It's the way of things.

As for me, I wished I could comment more often, and I agree with much of what is stated here and at A Little Leaven, especially concerning what Warren, Hybels, and many others are passing of as truth. You claim that these attacks so-called are just "character assassinations." To that, and in closing, I say this: These men (and in some cases women) are claiming to speak on behalf of God. THAT is a SERIOUS, SERIOUS matter, and what comes out of their mouths must be judged with the utmost discernment. Do some go to far in judging their actual intentions, i.e. their hearts? Yes, I believe so. But not being God and unable to judge their hearts, and, in most cases, not being personally acquainted with them, the only thing we can judge is what they are saying and doing and what path that this is leading those who follow them down. And if it is not the narrow way, then they must be called out on it, not only their teachings, but THEMSELVES. If THEY are teaching lies and untruths, then THEY are misleading people IN THE NAME OF GOD, since they call themselves pastors. And THAT IS something God is not pleased with:

James 3:1 - "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness."

My prayer is that those who twist the word of God and teach what is false will repent for the sake of those they are misleading AND their OWN sakes.


Rick Warren is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Only the blind cannot see this fact. How many days has it taken me to say this? From the very moment Warren made his appearance upon the world stage. If I was dying and gasping my last breath the last person I'd want comforting me would be Rick Warren, his words would lead me into the lake of fire. No thank you. I want someone who preaches the full orbed gospel without twisting God's holy word as Warren does.

The Gospel according to Warren and Hybels:

The Gospel According to Hybels & Warren

Further studies on the hidden evils and extreme deceptiveness of purpose drivenisim/seeker sensitivism/and all things Rick Warrenism:

Purpose Driven & Rick Warren

Mind you, those who worship Rick Warren all they see is that he does no wrong. Scary. He is leading millions into the lake of fire. How frightening it is going to be for him come judgment day. HELL BELLS. a?

Akira Kurosawa, catransplant48, or any other Rick Warren disciples, you are deluding millions of people around this earth and God will call you to account. Horrors. You folks do not tremble at God's word. You have no in depth concept of the holiness of God. REPENT. I am not shouting. I am warning!!!

Jim W

Akira Kurosawa, you have a pretty good double standard going on. For a guy (girl?) who frequently comments on tone and rudeness, you are quite rude to Edward Guerrero. You refer to him as "Eddie", when he quite clearly signed his name as "Edward". Perhaps he doesn't like to be called "Eddie". Does that matter in your little world? Apparently not.

Akira Kurosawa

Sorry, to have offended you Jim. I was caught up in memories of the wrestler Eddie Guerrero. I did not intend to insult him by shortening his name, merely point out the fallacies of his reasoning.

Douglas and Jim, for the record if you read my post, at no time do I condemn or praise Warren, I take issue with the way a brother in Christ is being treated in the blogging world. And Jim, you must be new here, my comments are pretty mild compared to most.

But if my words are difficult to understand and confused you, I will try to be more clear, so here it goes:



Akira said:


"Hateful" seems a little outside your ability to judge, not being God and unable to judge the heart. Blunt, definitely. Tactless, possibly. Brutally honest, perhaps, though that would depend on whether or not you thought it was honest (note, though, the difference between honesty and truthfulnes).


Please provide evidence that this is not helping but hurting the church, and exactly what you mean by hurting. No would argue that there is pain involved in surgery to remove cancer, i.e. it hurts the body, but few would also argue that the pain is not worth the removal of the cancer.


Douglas, if you can warn us to REPENT I can warn you to GET SOME HELP. You wrote: "If I was dying and gasping my last breath the last person I'd want comforting me would be Rick Warren, his words would lead me into the lake of fire."

You cannot be serious!!!

I fully agree with everything Akira has posted. Especially: "...at no time do I condemn or praise Warren, I take issue with the way a brother in Christ is being treated in the blogging world."


Akira Kurosawa

My reply Ray,

the definition of hate..."Hatred or hate is a word that describes intense feelings of dislike"
You can hide behind, no one knows the heart but God, however, actions tell the true story of your feelings. And we can know your feelings by your words...that's called communication.

As far as calling Warren a "cancer" that needs to be removed...really, a cancer...seriously?
I think that you and the other self proclaimed "doctors" are misdiagnosing the problem. Misdiagnosis can lead to alot of unnecessary pain.

Okay, proof that your statements are hurtful... here you go.

Fifteen hundred pastors leave the ministry each month due to morale failure, spiritual burnout or contention in their churches.

Four thousand new churches begin each year, but over seven thousand churches close.

Fifty percent of pastors' marriages will end in divorce.

Eighty percent of pastors and eighty-four percent of their spouses feel unqualified and discouraged in their role as pastors.

Fifty percent of pastors are so discouraged that they would leave the ministry if they could, but have no other way of making a living.

Eighty percent of seminary and Bible school graduates who enter the ministry will leave the ministry within the first five years. Ninety percent of pastors said their seminary or Bible school training did only a fair to poor job preparing them for ministry.

Eighty-five percent of pastors said their greatest problem is they are sick and tired of dealing with problem people, such as disgruntled elders, deacons, worship leaders, worship teams, board members, and associate pastors.

Seventy percent felt God called them to pastoral ministry before their ministry began, but after three years of ministry, only fifty percent still felt called.

I think, however, that you really aren't interested in the fact that hateful (yeah I used hateful again) words are the real problem, so I think I am done here.





I'll respond to the second part of your reply first. Simply put, you have not shown that the statements of this website and others like it are the cause of those statistics. In fact, I would argue just the opposite. Is the twisting of God's words to put peoples' focus on themselves and what they are doing as opposed to what Christ has done for them that results in the examples you provided. The continual focus on Christ's sacrifice as payment for our sins and the forgiveness that He gives out freely to all who repent and trust in Him leads us away from despair, not to it. You know what results in burn out? Trying to a go a million miles an hour doing this program and being a part of this team and that small group and that outreach and trying to give everyone what they WANT, Christian and non-Christian alike, mind you. THAT'S what causes burn out. Not the Gospel of Christ given to us in His Word and Sacraments. If you're always looking at what you're doing, you'll never be good enough, never satisfy enough people, never be doing enough, and that will lead you to despair.

Next, I did not specifically call Warren a cancer. However, false teaching AND those who teach it - IF THEY DO NOT REPENT - must, must, must be removed from the body of Christ. Now analogies are not perfect. You can find some fault with all of them if you get detailed about it. However, I think you can look at it this way, which I do: Think of teachers of false doctrine as healthy cells that have become diseased. The hope is always that they can be saved and healed. But, if not, they must go or the whole body will die. Consider Paul's words to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:18-20:

"This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, 20among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Even more carefully consider his words in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13:

"9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13God judges those outside. 'Purge the evil person from among you.'"

Who is it the Paul says we are to leave to God to judge? Those outside. But what of the evil person within our midst? THEY are the ones we ARE TO JUDGE! If they do not repent, purge them. Do not even eat with them. Paul even "handed some over to Satan" so they would learn their error. THEY are the ones we ARE TO JUDGE! And that is always the hope - that they will learn their error and repent before the Holy God whom they have blasphemed.

And this leads me into my last response, about "hateful." By a simple definition of "hatred" from the dictionary, it could be construed that our statements are "hateful." And I already stated I believe some, and even myself at times, go to far and we do speak in an unloving manner, and for that we need to repent. But to say that the things we say ARE HATEFUL is far from the truth. These peope are twisting GOD'S Word!! They are proclaiming lies and misleading people and doing so IN GOD's NAME!! This is not a matter to take lightly. Our motiviation is not hatred, but love. We want them to repent and be spared judgement. This is not accomplished, but pussy-footing around the issue and being nice and "unoffensive" and walk on eggshells to avoiding hurting their feelings. They need to be offended. Judging is not hating. They are doing damage to the body of Christ. As healthy cells that have become diseased with cancer, they need chemo or surgery. Neither is pleasant.


I listen to White Horse Inn, Issues Etc.., and Fighting For The Faith every episode. I don't have to leave a bunch of comments for you lurkers. I usually email the show. Chris thank you for being bold and truthful!

Jim W

Akira, cry me a river.


Jim W - "Akira, cry me a river"? Your heart is definitely right on! She obviously feels very compassionately about this and you offer "cry me a river". Nice, real nice. "Does that matter in your little world?" I suddenly have no respect for anything at all that you may say. You might preach the gospel but you are far from the heart of Christ my friend.

Jim Pierce

"Catransplant goes to Warren's church, I think, and he hears Christ every week. He hears the Gospel every week. However, you and Chris don't believe him."

Which gospel are you thinking of? Btw, you could produce as many people you want who claim that Rick Warren and Bill Hybels preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and that would not erase any of the documented words and practices of both pastors which clearly show they do not.


I do not hate Rick Warren or anyone, I hate false teaching and Scripture twisting. It confuses, it concerns, it confounds me. It makes me mistrust people. I will not stop pointing it out to the best of my limited ability unless God shows me clearly when to stop. Rick Warren twists the Scriptures and if you cannot see that fact then you are blind. Truth hurts at times.


Thank the Lord for resources such as Fighting for the Faith, White Horse Inn and Issues etc.

I spent 25 years growing up in a non-denom seeker sensitive, pop-american church and it's Christian school and it nearly turned me into an atheist. Thankfully I found a faithful Law and Gospel church and school for my family that happens to be Lutheran (ELS) Thank the Lord for the pure word and sacrament every week.

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