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Stephen Lownes

Freaking morons! Hey Chris. I hope you are well. Miss'n you comrades out here in Da People's Republic of communist Kalifornia.


This is the same mistake made some military commanders. They get overly agressive and chase the enemy till they have out ran the supply chain. Now they have no fuel, food, ammo, or medical help.

A church that takes off after Satan without a steady diet of God's Word will end up in the same shape: Weak, out of gas, defencless, and needing a spiritual hospitle.


Perhaps the real problem is UNDER-EDUCATED leaders???

Akira Kurosawa

I went and read the blog posts that you linked to, Chris, and I have to say, I think this guy is getting it twisted around in his head some how. If we read God's word, we should see it bear some fruit in our lives, but that is something that the Spirit does in us, not something that we practice until we get right and then move on to the next Biblical lesson.

In fact most of the comments on the blog disagreed with Mr. James. I think people recognized a dangerous premise when they saw it, and they are gently correcting the writers thinking. I hope he is open minded enough to listen.

I have to say that I also did not see any correlation to this teaching and seeker driven leadership. I think you are putting those two things together and this really just seems to be a lone guy throwing an idea out there, not the leadership of a church, preaching this from the pulpits. So I think I will just confine my criticism to the original blogger and the specific people who are promoting these thoughts, rather that condemning an entire group for the wrong-headed ideas of a few.



Akira, as usual, you are on target. You can read further into the missteps of many ODMs (this one included) on Richard Abanes' Pop Culture Mix. Make sure to read the comments, too. Fascinating stuff. The title of his post is:

ODM Update: Another Apologist Speaks Out Against the ODMs

Tim the Cyanide-Gargling Faith Gladiator

Thank you Chris, for your efforts not only in preaching the Gospel, but also in exposing the false doctrine that others would prefer to cover up or blissfully ignore.

Chris Rosebrough


Rick Warren made the same point at the Purpose-Driven Community Conference last year.

And I've had several conversations with seeker pastors on this topic.. oh and the Catalyst conferences are some the most heavily attended conferences by PD / Seeker pastors.


Chris, as usual, you are on target.

Rev. Z. Bartels

I have the opposite problem. I'm totally sanctified beyond my education.



Chris is spot on with pointing this out. This is one of the points Rick makes in the Purpose Driven Life book: "The last thing many believers need today is to go to another Bible study. They already know far more than they are putting into practice. "

I can see the point that Rick is making, Christians are called to serve God and others and not just themselves. People could have all the theological knowledge and degrees in the world but if they do nothing for their wife or family then it is no good. Sacrifical service should be a natural flow on of true gospel faith. check out the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5, Matthew 25 ( i think) and the book of James.

But, on the same page Rick says:

PREPARING FOR ETERNITY At the end of your life on earth you will stand before God, and he is going to evaluate how well you served others with your life.

On the other hand, Romans tells us that our righteousness is Christ's righteousness imputed to us, God declares us righteous on the basis of Christ's sacrificial death and glorious resurrection.

I'm not going to get into the notion of rewards/losing rewards but to make this point without explaining in any great detail the notions of sin and judgement, of grace and righteousness and mercy, could lead some to trust more in their works than in the death and resurrection of Christ, to say "look at what I've done for Christ" rather than "look at what Christ has done for me". Do you see the difference and the danger of getting the two confused?

Jonathan Schultz

I've said for years that the term "theology" is considered a dirty word in American Evangelicalism. Can't say this surprised me a whole lot.

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